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Think outside the box Hartsburg

+4
sennies1980
Number Twenty Nine
beerandsens
PTFlea
8 posters

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1Think outside the box Hartsburg Empty Think outside the box Hartsburg Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:17 pm

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder

Put one or two of:

Fisher, Alfie, Vermette, Kelly on D and see how it goes. All are good passers (with Vermette and Alfie being supremely good passers) all can jumpstart rushes.

We need puck movers and it's not likely to come from outside the organization. You have to try something at some point.

It's not like these guys are doing anything up front anyway.

2Think outside the box Hartsburg Empty Re: Think outside the box Hartsburg Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:28 pm

beerandsens

beerandsens
Sophomore
Sophomore

I like it. Hell, it would boost my interest level for a game or two.

3Think outside the box Hartsburg Empty Re: Think outside the box Hartsburg Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:08 pm

Number Twenty Nine

Number Twenty Nine
Veteran
Veteran

It seems he can't even think INSIDE the box. There was no excuse for not calling a time out after Calgary scored 3 quick ones. That's just piss poor coaching IMHO. I'm starting to think that this guy is in over his head.

I'm don't endorse wholesale management changes at this point, but that point is not too far off.....

4Think outside the box Hartsburg Empty Re: Think outside the box Hartsburg Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:19 pm

sennies1980

sennies1980
Prospect
Prospect

Number Twenty Nine wrote: There was no excuse for not calling a time out after Calgary scored 3 quick ones. That's just piss poor coaching IMHO.


i totally agree!

http://talkinghockey.wordpress.com

5Think outside the box Hartsburg Empty Re: Think outside the box Hartsburg Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:17 pm

pgood

pgood
Rookie
Rookie

sennies1980 wrote:
Number Twenty Nine wrote: There was no excuse for not calling a time out after Calgary scored 3 quick ones. That's just piss poor coaching IMHO.


i totally agree!

bad coaching maybe... but with this Ottawa team I doubt it would have made a lick of difference to the players...

we just plain suck this year...

6Think outside the box Hartsburg Empty Re: Think outside the box Hartsburg Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:30 pm

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator

Yeah, as much as I would like to agree that Hartsburg is in over his head, I don't think it would help much. Last year when Murray took over we were all, like "Finally, now we can get somewhere!" Sadly, the team continued playing as badly as under Paddock. At first we said, "Wait, it will take some time to undo 3/4 of a season's worth of no-system, indecisive coaching" but that wasn't it, was it?

I wasn't happy with the Paddock assignment last year because *every* analyst said that promoting assistants (almost) never works. I was quite unhappy with the Harstburg signing this year, because he lacked experience at this level. We needed someone who could come in right away and know what to do. Hartsburg was completely unprepared for a bunch of unmotivated, underachieving "pros". He's said that much himself -- he's never coached a team that didn't work hard. In the minors, everyone is working for peanuts and will do anything to get noticed so they can get a slice of that $475K-minimum pie. It's completely different here, and the Sens have that problem in spades.

Lots of new, shiny contracts and players aren't trying hard. There is a connection.

Huh, I think I just convinced myself that a coaching change is what we need. Maybe a player-coach, someone who can play some D and move the puck.

7Think outside the box Hartsburg Empty Re: Think outside the box Hartsburg Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:37 pm

COLLAR UP

COLLAR UP
Rookie
Rookie

how many coaches need to lose their job here before people realize that it is the players who suck...

furthermore...if this indeed is a re-build...Harts is a great coach for the kids that will be coming in...

get rid of the lazy bums on this team...the stupid...no heart...all money fools...bring in skill...but skill that wants to play every night...for a full 60...

Alfi...Heat...VOLCH...and *maybe* Fish stay...the rest...see ya...

8Think outside the box Hartsburg Empty Re: Think outside the box Hartsburg Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:54 pm

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator

COLLAR UP wrote:how many coaches need to lose their job here before people realize that it is the players who suck...

furthermore...if this indeed is a re-build...Harts is a great coach for the kids that will be coming in...

get rid of the lazy bums on this team...the stupid...no heart...all money fools...bring in skill...but skill that wants to play every night...for a full 60...

Alfi...Heat...VOLCH...and *maybe* Fish stay...the rest...see ya...

It's not just the the stupid...no heart...all money fools, though. Neil is playing for a new contract? Schubert wants to impress some potential future employer that he's a bonafide NHL-calibre defenseman, really? He's only got one more season to prove it; Vermette is in the same boat. What's McAmmond done lately? How about Gerber? Sure, he's got his contract, but what about the next one?

The only person who looks like they're playing in a contract year is Kuba, and even there I seem deficiencies. Sure, he's probably our best defenseman, but would it kill him to dish out a hit once in a while?

9Think outside the box Hartsburg Empty Re: Think outside the box Hartsburg Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:05 pm

LethalLehner

LethalLehner
Sophomore
Sophomore

COLLAR UP wrote:how many coaches need to lose their job here before people realize that it is the players who suck...

furthermore...if this indeed is a re-build...Harts is a great coach for the kids that will be coming in...

get rid of the lazy bums on this team...the stupid...no heart...all money fools...bring in skill...but skill that wants to play every night...for a full 60...

Alfi...Heat...VOLCH...and *maybe* Fish stay...the rest...see ya...

I agree with your coach comment. It seems a lot of people want to always point the finger at the coach. I don't think changing the coach will make any difference. The only thing that will change this team is the removal of some of the players. There is a certain level of complacency and general laziness that is not only frustrating to watch but I am sure it is also hard for Hartsburg to coach in an environment like that. Time to declare a rebuilding year and be done with it.

10Think outside the box Hartsburg Empty Re: Think outside the box Hartsburg Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:07 pm

COLLAR UP

COLLAR UP
Rookie
Rookie

I know what you're saying...I am sick of these guys...lol...

I do have to admit that I would absolutely love to bring Torts ino this org...big time...

I guess you could say I have a man-crush on him...lol...but it is hard to argue he isn't the best coach without a job right now

11Think outside the box Hartsburg Empty Re: Think outside the box Hartsburg Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:24 pm

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator

ElliottRules wrote:
COLLAR UP wrote:how many coaches need to lose their job here before people realize that it is the players who suck...

furthermore...if this indeed is a re-build...Harts is a great coach for the kids that will be coming in...

get rid of the lazy bums on this team...the stupid...no heart...all money fools...bring in skill...but skill that wants to play every night...for a full 60...

Alfi...Heat...VOLCH...and *maybe* Fish stay...the rest...see ya...

I agree with your coach comment. It seems a lot of people want to always point the finger at the coach. I don't think changing the coach will make any difference. The only thing that will change this team is the removal of some of the players. There is a certain level of complacency and general laziness that is not only frustrating to watch but I am sure it is also hard for Hartsburg to coach in an environment like that. Time to declare a rebuilding year and be done with it.

Hartsburg *preached* accountability from day-zero, before he even got to talk to any players, a the presser he stressed that there will be accountability.

Vermette has been moved to the third line and, if IceChips is right, will be on the fourth line tonight.

Schubert has been a healthy scratch a few times.

Spezza and Heatley were split up for a whole period. I think.

Vermette is still averaging 18-1/2 minutes per game. Fisher is still centering the second line -- name another team who has a 2nd line centre with 12 points in 29 games. Spezza was called out in the press but his ice time didn't decrease, and he still got to play with Heatley, even if it was only on the PP in a couple of games.

Where is the accountability we were promised? Why has Vermette, Fisher, Spezza and Heatley not been a healthy scratch a few times? What is Heatley still wearing the A while doing nothing worthy of being Alfie's alternate?

I think pointing at least one finger at the coach is entirely in line with what's been happening. And while the thought of blowing this up is becoming more and more appealing to me, I can't help but think that some very fundamental tactics have simply not been tried.

12Think outside the box Hartsburg Empty Re: Think outside the box Hartsburg Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:33 pm

LethalLehner

LethalLehner
Sophomore
Sophomore

wprager wrote:
ElliottRules wrote:
COLLAR UP wrote:how many coaches need to lose their job here before people realize that it is the players who suck...

furthermore...if this indeed is a re-build...Harts is a great coach for the kids that will be coming in...

get rid of the lazy bums on this team...the stupid...no heart...all money fools...bring in skill...but skill that wants to play every night...for a full 60...

Alfi...Heat...VOLCH...and *maybe* Fish stay...the rest...see ya...

I agree with your coach comment. It seems a lot of people want to always point the finger at the coach. I don't think changing the coach will make any difference. The only thing that will change this team is the removal of some of the players. There is a certain level of complacency and general laziness that is not only frustrating to watch but I am sure it is also hard for Hartsburg to coach in an environment like that. Time to declare a rebuilding year and be done with it.

Hartsburg *preached* accountability from day-zero, before he even got to talk to any players, a the presser he stressed that there will be accountability.

Vermette has been moved to the third line and, if IceChips is right, will be on the fourth line tonight.

Schubert has been a healthy scratch a few times.

Spezza and Heatley were split up for a whole period. I think.

Vermette is still averaging 18-1/2 minutes per game. Fisher is still centering the second line -- name another team who has a 2nd line centre with 12 points in 29 games. Spezza was called out in the press but his ice time didn't decrease, and he still got to play with Heatley, even if it was only on the PP in a couple of games.

Where is the accountability we were promised? Why has Vermette, Fisher, Spezza and Heatley not been a healthy scratch a few times? What is Heatley still wearing the A while doing nothing worthy of being Alfie's alternate?

I think pointing at least one finger at the coach is entirely in line with what's been happening. And while the thought of blowing this up is becoming more and more appealing to me, I can't help but think that some very fundamental tactics have simply not been tried.

While I agree partly with what you have said, I don't think anyone could have motivated these guys. Even if Hartsburg or Murray made them drive the zamboni for a few games. Murray could not do anything with them last year either. I think no matter what they try, at this point, it will be pointless. Is Hartsburg part of the solution for next year? I don't have the answer. But what I do know is that we have chewed up and spit out 3 coaches in the last year..that can't be very good for us attracting another coach or any UFAs.

13Think outside the box Hartsburg Empty Re: Think outside the box Hartsburg Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:42 pm

Number Twenty Nine

Number Twenty Nine
Veteran
Veteran

wprager wrote:Yeah, as much as I would like to agree that Hartsburg is in over his head, I don't think it would help much. Last year when Murray took over we were all, like "Finally, now we can get somewhere!" Sadly, the team continued playing as badly as under Paddock. At first we said, "Wait, it will take some time to undo 3/4 of a season's worth of no-system, indecisive coaching" but that wasn't it, was it?

I wasn't happy with the Paddock assignment last year because *every* analyst said that promoting assistants (almost) never works. I was quite unhappy with the Harstburg signing this year, because he lacked experience at this level. We needed someone who could come in right away and know what to do. Hartsburg was completely unprepared for a bunch of unmotivated, underachieving "pros". He's said that much himself -- he's never coached a team that didn't work hard. In the minors, everyone is working for peanuts and will do anything to get noticed so they can get a slice of that $475K-minimum pie. It's completely different here, and the Sens have that problem in spades.

Lots of new, shiny contracts and players aren't trying hard. There is a connection.

Huh, I think I just convinced myself that a coaching change is what we need. Maybe a player-coach, someone who can play some D and move the puck.

In the real world when employees start to slack, they get warnings first and then get sacked. Unfortunately the NHLPA is so strong that it enables the type of behavior we are seeing on our team. There's no recourse to "fire" or "suspend" your players. The fact that Hartsberg has not sat anyone yet shows he's in over his head. Wrong type of personality for this lot. I agree Torts is the guy to straighten it up.

It's funny how the guy that didn't get the job (deBoer) is burning it up in Florida.

At this point, I put some of the blame on Alfie. Yes Alfie. As the Captain, it's his duty to lead by example by not slacking off as well. He's had his off nights too and can't afford to encourage this behavior. Pull a Dallas, strip him of his Captain for a while - give it to Smith. Logic tells me the super turnaround in Philly was partially due to his leadership. He's got this "let me straighten these f@gs up" look on his face all the time - lol.

The whole year will fall on Murray unfortunately.

Part of me would like to think that this may all be planned. ie. Melnyk may have told Murray he wants the #1 pick. They're just singing just the right songs to make it look legit.

But where you dig down, boil to the trace elements, we just plain suck, when we shouldn't according to books.

14Think outside the box Hartsburg Empty Re: Think outside the box Hartsburg Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:00 pm

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder

Number Twenty Nine wrote:It seems he can't even think INSIDE the box. There was no excuse for not calling a time out after Calgary scored 3 quick ones. That's just piss poor coaching IMHO. I'm starting to think that this guy is in over his head.

I'm don't endorse wholesale management changes at this point, but that point is not too far off.....

Even after the 2nd quick goal.

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