Brian Lee - Have you given up on him?

RobbyJ wrote:I believe he may be our 3rd worst first round pick behind only Mathiue Chouinard and number 91. And yes I do remember Radek Bonk. My opinion is that the best we can hope for is a borderline Top 4 Dman, so I would move him in a heartbeat if it meant closing a deal.

It's an easy trade to make for any GM, since t was Muckler who drafted him. If it had been one of Murray's picks I could see it being difficult to give up so quickly.

Butit's still way to early to say he was our third worst first round pick. He's 21 with a handful games at the NHL level, most of them pretty good ones (just not lately).

wprager wrote:

RobbyJ wrote:I believe he may be our 3rd worst first round pick behind only Mathiue Chouinard and number 91. And yes I do remember Radek Bonk. My opinion is that the best we can hope for is a borderline Top 4 Dman, so I would move him in a heartbeat if it meant closing a deal.

It's an easy trade to make for any GM, since t was Muckler who drafted him. If it had been one of Murray's picks I could see it being difficult to give up so quickly.

Butit's still way to early to say he was our third worst first round pick. He's 21 with a handful games at the NHL level, most of them pretty good ones (just not lately).

It'll be hard to say "I told you so" if I don't share my opinion.

Bell may be ahead of him now, but wouldn't you say Lee was ahead of Bell at the end of last season? Things can change. All those D-men you mentioned could be gone in 2-3 years, or their development could have taken a nosedive.

wprager wrote:Bell may be ahead of him now, but wouldn't you say Lee was ahead of Bell at the end of last season? Things can change. All those D-men you mentioned could be gone in 2-3 years, or their development could have taken a nosedive.

Ok, say Lee jumps ahead of Bell for the sake of arguments, and Phillips leaves along with Kuba. You still have A train and Picard who are ahead of him. Also, you have Karlsson and Wierchoch coming up the rear right now developing quick and looking like they can jump in to the NHL a lot sooner than later.

Now, with the most pressing need for the Sens being a puck mover, you can count on someone else being signed and probably another minor deal or signing to boot. Even if 1 of those 2 things happen, that still puts Lee at about the 5, 6 position.

The Sens may very well draft another D man in the first round if they have a top 3-5 pick. That almost kills Lee's career as a top D man in Ottawa.

I wasn't talking about tomorrow. I was talking about a 21-year-old drafted out of highschool. There is obviously a big chance he won't amount to much, but 20-some games into his "career" is too early to say.

wprager wrote:I wasn't talking about tomorrow. I was talking about a 21-year-old drafted out of highschool. There is obviously a big chance he won't amount to much, but 20-some games into his "career" is too early to say.

Well I could win the lotto too, but I wouldnt count on it.

And well you shouldn't, count on it, that is.

That said, you wouldn't throw a ticket away too early either. And can we stop with the lastworditis? I thought you put me on the foe list, so why are you responding to my posts? Don't you have to, like, click to see more than one line?

Now since I was the one that started this thread I guess it's time I weighed in.

I'm not going to get into whether or not Lee can be a top 4 IN OTTAWA or not since it's been covered from all angles.

I will say this: He is not a write off by any means and I'm sure you can point to several D prospects that took longer than 2 or 3 years to develop into top D men. I do think based on our needs and our current situation on D we'd be better off getting as much return on Lee as is currently possible.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:Now since I was the one that started this thread I guess it's time I weighed in.

I'm not going to get into whether or not Lee can be a top 4 IN OTTAWA or not since it's been covered from all angles.

I will say this: He is not a write off by any means and I'm sure you can point to several D prospects that took longer than 2 or 3 years to develop into top D men. I do think based on our needs and our current situation on D we'd be better off getting as much return on Lee as is currently possible.

Look no further than Chris Phillips. First overall pick, and when did we start thinking of him as one of the top shut-down guys int he league? Three years ago?

interesting Wprager...

It's funny, because I have lost a lot of faith in Lee. But, maybe he'll prove me wrong

Cronenbergfan wrote:interesting Wprager...

It's funny, because I have lost a lot of faith in Lee. But, maybe he'll prove me wrong

As have I. It's still very early in his career, but I'd say at this point, he's not untouchable. If he has to go in order to bring in a stud, so be it. I won't be losing sleep.

I'd add a few things here:

1. You have to give to get - if we want a stud, we have to give at least a blue chip
   
2. Lee is not and never will be a Phillips - he doesn't have the size or edginess (i.e. he's too "nice")
   
3. Lee is not the type of player that is perceived as a leader

Given the above, and the current state of the Senators, I'd argue that he is definitely tradable, given the right return. Further, I'd question whether he's ever going to have the chance to play top four anyhow, as we are likely to keep A-train (and hopefully Phillips, but that's to be seen), and we have several higher level prospects on the way. [And the way we are playing, we may get Hedman too]

I haven't. His skating and puck-handling is superb, as his passing, and he's got a good frame.

He has the ability to get much better than he is. He's already pretty smart defensively, he just needs to work on his shot and his strength.

I don't think not giving up on him means you'd be unwilling to trade the guy. With the exception of Alfredsson for nostalgia, there's not a person on the roster I wouldn't be willing to trade.

But the idea of "giving up" on someone seems to imply cutting them, waiving them or trading for a 4th or 5th round pick.

Lee is still a great asset to this organization. Despite the success of newer prospects like Karlsson and Wiercioch, we're not knee-deep in defencemen or defenceman prospects, and Lee is the best thing we've got along with Picard and Volchenkov to transition to the Karlsson era.

He's already shown he can be a very effective defenceman.

asq2 wrote:I haven't. His skating and puck-handling is superb, as his passing, and he's got a good frame.

He has the ability to get much better than he is. He's already pretty smart defensively, he just needs to work on his shot and his strength.

I don't think not giving up on him means you'd be unwilling to trade the guy. With the exception of Alfredsson for nostalgia, there's not a person on the roster I wouldn't be willing to trade.

But the idea of "giving up" on someone seems to imply cutting them, waiving them or trading for a 4th or 5th round pick.

Lee is still a great asset to this organization. Despite the success of newer prospects like Karlsson and Wiercioch, we're not knee-deep in defencemen or defenceman prospects, and Lee is the best thing we've got along with Picard and Volchenkov to transition to the Karlsson era.

He's already shown he can be a very effective defenceman.

Agreed. He can't just be given away. But like most here have stated, if the right deal is there, he's a goner. He is a valuable piece to have certainly though.

hemlock wrote:

asq2 wrote:I haven't. His skating and puck-handling is superb, as his passing, and he's got a good frame.

He has the ability to get much better than he is. He's already pretty smart defensively, he just needs to work on his shot and his strength.

I don't think not giving up on him means you'd be unwilling to trade the guy. With the exception of Alfredsson for nostalgia, there's not a person on the roster I wouldn't be willing to trade.

But the idea of "giving up" on someone seems to imply cutting them, waiving them or trading for a 4th or 5th round pick.

Lee is still a great asset to this organization. Despite the success of newer prospects like Karlsson and Wiercioch, we're not knee-deep in defencemen or defenceman prospects, and Lee is the best thing we've got along with Picard and Volchenkov to transition to the Karlsson era.

He's already shown he can be a very effective defenceman.

Agreed. He can't just be given away. But like most here have stated, if the right deal is there, he's a goner. He is a valuable piece to have certainly though.

Well obviously, but again that's the case with almost anyone on the team.

If the Pens decide that they want to go in a new direction and offer Evgeni Malkin for Anton Volchenkov, can you honestly say you wouldn't drive the A-Train to the A-irport?

Almost everyone has their price, but that doesn't mean their worthless. Just looking at the words there, that's pretty apparent.

asq2 wrote:

hemlock wrote:

asq2 wrote:I haven't. His skating and puck-handling is superb, as his passing, and he's got a good frame.

He has the ability to get much better than he is. He's already pretty smart defensively, he just needs to work on his shot and his strength.

I don't think not giving up on him means you'd be unwilling to trade the guy. With the exception of Alfredsson for nostalgia, there's not a person on the roster I wouldn't be willing to trade.

But the idea of "giving up" on someone seems to imply cutting them, waiving them or trading for a 4th or 5th round pick.

Lee is still a great asset to this organization. Despite the success of newer prospects like Karlsson and Wiercioch, we're not knee-deep in defencemen or defenceman prospects, and Lee is the best thing we've got along with Picard and Volchenkov to transition to the Karlsson era.

He's already shown he can be a very effective defenceman.

Agreed. He can't just be given away. But like most here have stated, if the right deal is there, he's a goner. He is a valuable piece to have certainly though.

Well obviously, but again that's the case with almost anyone on the team.

If the Pens decide that they want to go in a new direction and offer Evgeni Malkin for Anton Volchenkov, can you honestly say you wouldn't drive the A-Train to the A-irport?

Almost everyone has their price, but that doesn't mean their worthless. Just looking at the words there, that's pretty apparent.

Certainly I would. I meant that Lee is valuable as a bargaining chip, should Murray decide to do so. He's got nice size, can skate well, and start a break out. Plus he's like what? 21.

So, you wouldn't trade Alfie to the Wings for Datsyuk, if the Wings came calling? His window for winning a cup in Ottawa is barely open at this point. Obviously this is a moot point, but let's for the sake of argument it happened. Would you do it?

Cap'n Clutch wrote:Do you think Lee is a lost cause and wasted first round pick?

It's interesting to look back at the draft now and see what else was available... but this is all 20/20 of course...

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2005e.html

We could of had Kopitar (taken 11th by LA) or Marc Staal (taken 12th by the Rangers).

cogloano, vlasic, stastny... the list goes on.