General Hockey Talk - Injuries, signings, factoids + other news from around the league

Getting young guys locked up to 7 or 8 year deals isn't a bad thing if they're pretty safe bets.

Flo The Action wrote:

PTFlea wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Batherson and Tkachuk are both RFA's after next season. If they put up 50+ points on the worst team in the NHL, they demand big money. Keller averaged 56 points over the last two seasons.

I agree, if batherson lives up to the hype he's right in the wheel house of a big, long contract like keller.

Also, I think tkachuk is legitimately worth 5 plus million to clubs right now,  imagine in two years time?

I have trouble with dorion a lot, but this was an exceptional draft pick.  Faced some backlash from fans too

It’s all about upside though. Keller is a C and a much higher ceiling than Batherson. Batherson has a couple of years to prove his case but he’s gonna have to put up close to40 G to get near that and I don’t see it happening. Let’s see if he can get to 30 first.
Tkachuck has all the intangibles and could see him being a 30-35 goal guy if he’s playing with the right linemates. But willadd a lot more to the table. He could be in the 7mill LT range.

Brady will want to make what Matthew makes. But I think he'll get a little less personally.

Flo The Action wrote:

PTFlea wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Batherson and Tkachuk are both RFA's after next season. If they put up 50+ points on the worst team in the NHL, they demand big money. Keller averaged 56 points over the last two seasons.

I agree, if batherson lives up to the hype he's right in the wheel house of a big, long contract like keller.

Also, I think tkachuk is legitimately worth 5 plus million to clubs right now,  imagine in two years time?

I have trouble with dorion a lot, but this was an exceptional draft pick.  Faced some backlash from fans too

It’s all about upside though. Keller is a C and a much higher ceiling than Batherson. Batherson has a couple of years to prove his case but he’s gonna have to put up close to40 G to get near that and I don’t see it happening. Let’s see if he can get to 30 first.
Tkachuck has all the intangibles and could see him being a 30-35 goal guy if he’s playing with the right linemates. But willadd a lot more to the table. He could be in the 7mill LT range.

I have two small issues with this.

1.Why is Keller's ceiling much higher than Bathersons? Is it because of pedigree - where Keller was drafted vs where Batherson was? Because Batherson has done everything right in terms of development. Stepped into the pros and put up a PPG in the AHL and a ~.5 PPG in the NHL - and that's without starting the year in the NHL and getting the benefit of playing top six minutes. It's possible I'm overrating Batherson and underrating Keller, but I could see a strong season coming for Batherson where he's at least in the vicinity of Keller's stats.

2.Again with Tkachuk, I really think teams would pay him 5+ million RIGHT NOW, let alone when it's time to reneg in 2 years. I think 7 is an absolute easy target for him and I could see more personally.

PTFlea wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

PTFlea wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Batherson and Tkachuk are both RFA's after next season. If they put up 50+ points on the worst team in the NHL, they demand big money. Keller averaged 56 points over the last two seasons.

I agree, if batherson lives up to the hype he's right in the wheel house of a big, long contract like keller.

Also, I think tkachuk is legitimately worth 5 plus million to clubs right now,  imagine in two years time?

I have trouble with dorion a lot, but this was an exceptional draft pick.  Faced some backlash from fans too

It’s all about upside though. Keller is a C and a much higher ceiling than Batherson. Batherson has a couple of years to prove his case but he’s gonna have to put up close to40 G to get near that and I don’t see it happening. Let’s see if he can get to 30 first.
Tkachuck has all the intangibles and could see him being a 30-35 goal guy if he’s playing with the right linemates. But willadd a lot more to the table. He could be in the 7mill LT range.

I have two small issues with this.  

1.Why is Keller's ceiling much higher than Bathersons?  Is it because of pedigree - where Keller was drafted vs where Batherson was?  Because Batherson has done everything right in terms of development.  Stepped into the pros and put up a PPG in the AHL and a ~.5 PPG in the NHL - and that's without starting the year in the NHL and getting the benefit of playing top six minutes.  It's possible I'm overrating Batherson and underrating Keller, but I could see a strong season coming for Batherson where he's at least in the vicinity of Keller's stats.

2.Again with Tkachuk, I really think teams would pay him 5+ million RIGHT NOW, let alone when it's time to reneg in 2 years.  I think 7 is an absolute easy target for him and I could see more personally.

Tkachuk will make slightly less than his brother but may opt for a shorter-term deal. I think $7.5M x 5 years is realistic for him.

And Keller's ceiling is not higher than Batherson's. There is nothing to support that right now.

Sens wont want to go to 5 years with tkachuk, they'll want a bridge or an 8 year. Hence all the rfas holding out, they all want 5 years like when aho used Montreal like a cheap hooker to get it.

It's a major sticking point. Chabot will probably want 5 years too.

PTFlea wrote:Sens wont want to go to 5 years with tkachuk, they'll want a bridge or an 8 year.  Hence all the rfas holding out, they all want 5 years like when aho used Montreal like a cheap hooker to get it.

It's a major sticking point.  Chabot will probably want 5 years too.

I think the 5 year thing is a pipe dream. Matthews is a superstar. I think these other RFA's will one-by-one fall into line.

I think all players just want to get to UFA as quickly as possible. Teams can buy UFA years with longer term deals, but then the price goes up. It's all very interesting.

tim1_2 wrote:I think all players just want to get to UFA as quickly as possible.  Teams can buy UFA years with longer term deals, but then the price goes up.  It's all very interesting.  

Ya but the teams hold their RFA rights. I think players are looking at the NBA as a model where there is so little control retained by the teams. I think the NHL has circumvented the super team model by having a hard cap (no luxury tax model) and simply by requiring 20 or so players on a roster. Six superstars on the same time creates a lot of holes in the roster.

It is tough being a fan when there is little loyalty by a player to a franchise. This rush to UFA is about the player picking a team to play for. We're stupid to think Ottawa has any chance to compete with a team like LA or even Dallas where climate and lifestyle is better. I'd love to see a franchise tag approach or find a way for a player to have a higher max contract if they stay with their existing team.

Canes just stole Gardiner. 4.05AAV. Love this team.

Lagoon wrote:Canes just stole Gardiner. 4.05AAV. Love this team.

Yeah that’s lower than what I thought he’d get. Or at least on a longer deal. I thought he might opt for a one year prove I can stay healthy” deal but I guess he valued the security of 16 mill. Maybe that’s the right move though.

Just shows that sometimes ufa doesnt really pay

PTFlea wrote:Just shows that sometimes ufa doesnt really pay

Shows tha waiting past 2 weeks after UFA period starts doesn’t really pay.

Can’t remember the other leafs Dman that did the exact same thing and finally signed with Buffalo I think? Never got his big payday.

Flo The Action wrote:

PTFlea wrote:Just shows that sometimes ufa doesnt really pay

Shows tha waiting past 2 weeks after UFA period starts doesn’t really pay.

Can’t remember the other leafs Dman that did the exact same thing and finally signed with Buffalo I think? Never got his big payday.

Cody Franson?

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

PTFlea wrote:Just shows that sometimes ufa doesnt really pay

Shows tha waiting past 2 weeks after UFA period starts doesn’t really pay.

Can’t remember the other leafs Dman that did the exact same thing and finally signed with Buffalo I think? Never got his big payday.

Cody Franson?

That’s the sucker!

Dzingel, too.

wprager wrote:Dzingel, too.

Yeah I guess. Although did anyone really think he was going to make 5mill a season? I wonder what the deal the Sens offered was. He definitely didn’t get the max value he could. He still might though.hes young, only a 2 year. He could vanish also tough.
I think he’ll do well in Carolina though.

Speaking of 5 million, Werenski just re upped with the Jackets for a team friendly 5 mil.

That helps us with Chabot.

Lagoon wrote:Speaking of 5 million, Werenski just re upped with the Jackets for a team friendly 5 mil.

That helps us with Chabot.

That's pretty good. There was also Sam Girard but Chabot is obviously much better. Now we wait to see what Provorov gets.