NHL CBA Talk

SpezDispenser wrote:It's pretty silly. The NHL has operated under the last CBA and now they're saying they need a reduction in the % - why can't the players understand that?

They understand it very well, they just do not want to give it up. They also know that every few years the owners will knock their % off a few points and lock them out until they accept.

Read about the NFL and NBA negotiations, their player associations were saying the exact same things and in the end they caved. It's almost funny how similar things went.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:It's pretty silly. The NHL has operated under the last CBA and now they're saying they need a reduction in the % - why can't the players understand that?

Because employers always want to cut salaries and employees usually want to make more money. No different than anywhere else in the workforce.

I think if one looked at the percentage of revenues that go to salaries in the "real world" that percentage would often be higher than what the company ends up with for other expenses and, hopefully, profit.

Have you *ever* worked for a share (no matter how small) of the *revenues*? Has *anyone*?

It is *extremely* different from anywhere else in the workforce.

Now, is that *enough* asterisks?

Didn't Gary say that times have never been better at the Stanley Cup presentation? Profits were up, ratings were up, everything was up up up!!!!

But clearly, it's broken.

Tolensky with a gem: CBA must be terrible to have all these teams rushing to sign players under the existing terms.

https://twitter.com/dtolensky/status/246718680896008193

Capgeek: Teams have handed out $104.7M in contracts so far today -- the eve of an #NHL lockout.

Jeezus.

shabbs wrote:Capgeek: Teams have handed out $104.7M in contracts so far today -- the eve of an #NHL lockout.

Jeezus.

After what the players have been saying out the Owners??? I guess no bad blood yet..

wprager wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:It's pretty silly. The NHL has operated under the last CBA and now they're saying they need a reduction in the % - why can't the players understand that?

Because employers always want to cut salaries and employees usually want to make more money. No different than anywhere else in the workforce.

I think if one looked at the percentage of revenues that go to salaries in the "real world" that percentage would often be higher than what the company ends up with for other expenses and, hopefully, profit.

Have you *ever* worked for a share (no matter how small) of the *revenues*? Has *anyone*?

It is *extremely* different from anywhere else in the workforce.

Now, is that *enough* asterisks?

That part was in response to a different post. I got he idea that the poster thought that 57 percent was excessive.

sandysensfan wrote:
That insane proposal you mentioned was 43%. The Owners operated off that last season, plus paid all their teams' operating expenses. So if that was an insane offer for them to give to the players... what do the players think of the Owners having 43% last season with paying expenses?

Furthermore, any *company* that sells a *product* or *service* pays their *employees* out of the receivables from those sales or *revenue*, if you will, thus *a* portion or share of that revenue *goes* to pay said employees.

As I said, salaries are funded through revenues and that portion of revenue is often higher than 50 percent. Just as it was in the NHL under the last CBA and, therefore, very much, in that regard, like the general workforce.

Revenues higher than 50%? Are you talking about government services with user fees?

Labour is always going to be the biggest expense of any company. How many companies do you know that actually link revenue to salary expenses?

It would be interesting to know what most companies pay out in salaries expressed as a percentage of revenue.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:Labour is always going to be the biggest expense of any company. How many companies do you know that actually link revenue to salary expenses?

It would be interesting to know what most companies pay out in salaries expressed as a percentage of revenue.

http://www.ehow.com/info_7751111_percent-business-should-used-salaries.html

Industry Standards

The percentage of your operating expenses devoted to salaries will depend on the type of industry you are in. Utilities and manufacturing industries have large infrastructure costs that generally make up a much greater portion of their spending than salaries. Consider these Bureau of Labor Statistics numbers as a guide: Industries with the highest median percentage of operating expenses devoted to salaries in 2008 included the health care industry, with a 52 percent ratio, and for-profit services, with a 50 percent ratio. The lowest were durable goods manufacturing at 22 percent, construction/mining and oil/gas at 22 percent and retail and wholesale trade at 18 percent.


Read more: What Percent of My Business Should Be Used for Salaries? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/info_7751111_percent-business-should-used-salaries.html#ixzz26XpQu8kF

Players' take is 57%. GMs and coaches typically are $1M+ each, so let's say $3M against an average payroll of ~$50M (basing this on a 21 man roster at a $2.4M average salary) that's another 3.4% of revenues ($3M is 6% of $50M, and if that $50M extrapolates to 57% then 6% of that is 3.4% of revenues).

So with just payers, coaches and GMs you are already past 60% of revenues. And you've got assistant coaches, video coaches, goaltending coaches, trainers, physiotherapists, doctors, nutritionists, scouts, accountants, league executives, office personnel. Probably getting close to 65% if not higher.

Also, I'm not sure if that 57% represents salaries only or payroll taxes as well. Using a US payroll tax calculator, an average $2.4M salary will result in roughly $40K in payroll taxes, which is $840K for a 21-man roster. In Canada payroll taxes include CPP and EI only so you max out way before $2.4M. Assuming it's similar in the US I think it's ok to just assume that $40K would not increase for higher-earning players. It's not too much of a stretch to assume that that $840 per club goes up to $1M pretty quickly with coaches, scouts, GMs, etc. So I think it's safe to say that salaries, including payroll taxes, represent the high 60s as a percentage of revenues. That *is* unusual, to say the least.

Garrioch tweets that Redden will be one of the players locked out at 11:59.

Now, how does it work. He can't play at all?

Isn't Redden already assigned to the AHL?

Check this out:

http://snyrangersblog.com/wade-redden/read-how-wade-redden-is-impacted-by-the-lockout

Money saving move by the Rags? They don't have to pay him.

Heh.

can someone please explain to me why Bobby Butler is put on waivers just after having signed a two way deal with NJ?

Flo The Action wrote:can someone please explain to me why Bobby Butler is put on waivers just after having signed a two way deal with NJ?

Isn't it # of years and games played since signing his first NHL contract? A 2-way contract has nothing to do with waiver status.

shabbs wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:can someone please explain to me why Bobby Butler is put on waivers just after having signed a two way deal with NJ?

Isn't it # of years and games played since signing his first NHL contract? A 2-way contract has nothing to do with waiver status.

ok but why waive him if they just signed him?

Flo The Action wrote:

shabbs wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:can someone please explain to me why Bobby Butler is put on waivers just after having signed a two way deal with NJ?

Isn't it # of years and games played since signing his first NHL contract? A 2-way contract has nothing to do with waiver status.

ok but why waive him if they just signed him?

So he can play in the AHL.

Sens have not (yet) waived anyone -- I take it you don't need to waive someone like, for example, Cowen?

The rest of the league, though, lots of movement in the last 7 days:

http://www.forecaster.ca/hockeyplus/hockey/movements.cgi?NHL&x_dateLimit=0

So, no talks planned today... lockout is 100% going to happen.

It's official. NHL has locked out the players...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=405400

A sad, sad day....

In other news, via BooBoo: The signings of Sergei Gonchar and Evgeni Malkin in Magnitogorsk were made official this morning. #Sens #Pens #NHL

https://twitter.com/SunGarrioch/status/247313014271930368