Carolina Hurricanes @ Ottawa Senators, Tuesday, April 3, 2012, 7:00 PM EST

It's ok to have 2 rookies that have a shot at the Calder

TheAvatar wrote:It's ok to have 2 rookies that have a shot at the Calder

This. Can't we all just get along?

I think he can be an explosive NHLer - and an impact player, but when? Next year? I dunno...I hope so, but I remain skeptical.

SpezDispenser wrote:I think he can be an explosive NHLer - and an impact player, but when? Next year? I dunno...I hope so, but I remain skeptical.

Define explosive and impact.

Big Ev wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I think he can be an explosive NHLer - and an impact player, but when? Next year? I dunno...I hope so, but I remain skeptical.

Define explosive and impact.

Hadn't thought about that...

20 goals, 25 assists? Nice number of hits. Something like that? I don't even know this kid's ceiling, I've heard everything from 3rd line grinder to exciting top line winger, to 2nd line C. Who knows...

Hoags wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:
I see your point for sure Hoags, it's a huge reason I think he has the value he has - and we might want to keep him around while the young guys mature - heck, we might want to keep him around period, but if we can get someone like Bogosian for him + high pick, then you have to do it.

I just can't see a player like Bogosian being available, if a team has a guy like that you don't trade him, not for a 1st round pick and Foligno anyway. You saw what we gave up for Turris.

Cowen and Karlsson will be our top pairing for the next decade, we need someone to play with EK until Cowen can handle those minutes, it doesn't look like that will happen anytime soon. Maybe we can resign Kuba, maybe we can resign someone else.

I thought Ballard would be a good fit here, but he's just an injury prone mess in Vancouver.

What we gave up for Turris, ultimately, was a mid 1st round pick (#16) and a 2nd. We may have thought, for a while, that Rundblad was an elite PMD in the making but the truth is he was not. Throw him on the large pile of record-setting Elitserien defensemen who never amounted to much in the NHL. Would you trade a #16 overall plus a 2nd to move up to 3rd overall? In a second! Of course the shine had worn off on Turris, a little, but the potential was still there, and he was a few years closer to being an impact player than he would have been on draft day.

You're giving up on Rundblad way too early.

SpezDispenser wrote:You're giving up on Rundblad way too early.

No one's giving up on Rundblad. Many are of the opinion he is a brutal NA player and there is absolutely nothing to say that isn't the case. He was bad in the WJC (twice), he was beyond awful in the NHL, and now he's bad in the AHL. He can't play the game here.

Getting Turris for Rundblad and a 2nd was a steal.

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:You're giving up on Rundblad way too early.

No one's giving up on Rundblad. Many are of the opinion he is a brutal NA player and there is absolutely nothing to say that isn't the case. He was bad in the WJC (twice), he was beyond awful in the NHL, and now he's bad in the AHL. He can't play the game here.

Getting Turris for Rundblad and a 2nd was a steal.

Still have to take the time to see how he adapts to it next season, if he improves his decision making etc. He's got a lot of talent, now he needs coaching and time before anyone can make a decision.

SpezDispenser wrote:
Still have to take the time to see how he adapts to it next season, if he improves his decision making etc. He's got a lot of talent, now he needs coaching and time before anyone can make a decision.

We need Turris more than we need Rundblad, you can see it in our record since we acquired him. I think Rundblad needs to change his game for the NHL.

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:You're giving up on Rundblad way too early.

No one's giving up on Rundblad. Many are of the opinion he is a brutal NA player and there is absolutely nothing to say that isn't the case. He was bad in the WJC (twice), he was beyond awful in the NHL, and now he's bad in the AHL. He can't play the game here.

Getting Turris for Rundblad and a 2nd was a steal.

Still have to take the time to see how he adapts to it next season, if he improves his decision making etc. He's got a lot of talent, now he needs coaching and time before anyone can make a decision.

A lot of guys have a lot of talent... so what? He doesn't need coaching, he needs to totally reinvent his game and change the way his entire approach. Not gonna happen. Doesn't have the right vision, on ice attitude, or abilities to be anything more than a 5, 6 D man. In his best year he might be good enough to be a #3 but I doubt he even gets there.

His struggles are not minor in any way, they are large and obvious. IMO Ottawa traded a future NHL bust.

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:You're giving up on Rundblad way too early.

No one's giving up on Rundblad. Many are of the opinion he is a brutal NA player and there is absolutely nothing to say that isn't the case. He was bad in the WJC (twice), he was beyond awful in the NHL, and now he's bad in the AHL. He can't play the game here.

Getting Turris for Rundblad and a 2nd was a steal.

Still have to take the time to see how he adapts to it next season, if he improves his decision making etc. He's got a lot of talent, now he needs coaching and time before anyone can make a decision.

A lot of guys have a lot of talent... so what? He doesn't need coaching, he needs to totally reinvent his game and change the way his entire approach. Not gonna happen. Doesn't have the right vision, on ice attitude, or abilities to be anything more than a 5, 6 D man. In his best year he might be good enough to be a #3 but I doubt he even gets there.

His struggles are not minor in any way, they are large and obvious. IMO Ottawa traded a future NHL bust.

I really think Phoenix knew exactly what it was doing in this instance. I think they all knew he'd take a year after this in the AHL to figure out his play 5 on 5 and in the defensive zone and they were okay with that because of the wealth of young D-men they have. I don't think he can be labelled a bust after 50 pro games or whatever it is, he's a type of player that has elite level passing skills and a nice, heavy shot from the point that got on net a lot (when he used it).

I'm certainly not disputing he's got a long way to go, but I think he ends up as a 2nd pairing D-man with the potential to keep opponents on their toes at all times with his ability to thread the needle and make trap breaking passes. I also fully believe that professional coaches can help him adapt to his game in NA.

All this to say, it's way to early to give up on him, way too early.

Hoags wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:
Still have to take the time to see how he adapts to it next season, if he improves his decision making etc. He's got a lot of talent, now he needs coaching and time before anyone can make a decision.

We need Turris more than we need Rundblad, you can see it in our record since we acquired him. I think Rundblad needs to change his game for the NHL.

I agree, we needed Turris way more. Addresses a big need for us. If...repeat if Rundblad fails, I think it'll have a lot to do with his inability to read the play the way other silky puck movers read it and his reaction time is much slower right now. He also severely lacks the footspeed of some of the other puck movers.