Do you still stand behind Murray?

Give me your thoughts.

He needs the chance to unload the dead wieght, and if he doesnt, he should be gone.

Dead wieght = Spezza and/or Heatley.

If what Commodore said is true: then no.

Otherwise, yes. He didn't address our need for a PMD but the price was a bit ridiculous. He's drafted well, he resisted the urge to add another huge contract to anchor this team and thus far, most importantly has not dealt any part of the future to try to save his job/the season (*knock on wood*).

I'm really not sure. he's proven to be successful, but everything is coming down on him at once. All his decisions look good on paper, but havent materialized.

I'm torn.

I'm with Murray for at least one or two more years. The rebuild process (if he commits to it) is a good enough reason to keep him. And I will certainly do anything to not look like the Tampa bay lightning management.

Logic says that it takes time, and that he's had success before.
But it's really hard to watch players, who earn more per week than I do per year, lollygag around the ice and not give a crap.

I understand that Murray needs a partner in order to dance, and that he's already started to make moves, in the form of waiving Gerber in favour of Elliot, and bringing up Regin. However, it seems that the whole issue of accountability and "toughness" hasn't just faded, but never showed up to begin with.

I'd be happier seeing the team lose every game, but watching hard-fought battles where they were laying it all out there (Volchenkov comes to mind). Instead, Ottawa is the team that others play their backup goalie against, and consider resting a regular or two - and still win by a couple of goals or more.

The longer Murray goes without doing something, the more I have to wonder whether he is capable of making the "big moves" that may be required.

Acrobat wrote:Logic says that it takes time, and that he's had success before.
But it's really hard to watch players, who earn more per week than I do per year, lollygag around the ice and not give a crap.

I understand that Murray needs a partner in order to dance, and that he's already started to make moves, in the form of waiving Gerber in favour of Elliot, and bringing up Regin. However, it seems that the whole issue of accountability and "toughness" hasn't just faded, but never showed up to begin with.

I'd be happier seeing the team lose every game, but watching hard-fought battles where they were laying it all out there (Volchenkov comes to mind). Instead, Ottawa is the team that others play their backup goalie against, and consider resting a regular or two - and still win by a couple of goals or more.

The longer Murray goes without doing something, the more I have to wonder whether he is capable of making the "big moves" that may be required.

Or may be he will come out before the end of the year (trade deadline? draft day?) with the trade of the century, because he was patient enough to wait for the right deal ...

Here is what I suspect is going on...FWIW... :pirat:

Eugene Melnyk and Bryan Murray have already sat down and decided who stays and who goes.

Being the astute businessman he is, Melnyk has instructed Murray to get the maximum in return for the players who have failed to deliver on Gene's investment.

They have already discussed deals with a number of potential partners. Details are being worked out.

There is no 'rush' to trade anyone for that reason.

In this scenario, Melnyk and Murray expect that one or more buyers will agree to do business before the March deadline; and that more buyers will be ready to makle a move in June before the draft.

Following this line of thinking, and a close look at the sitautions and depth charts (in other words, my two cents), here are some observations and hypotheticals:

The Western teams on the playoff bubble are the most likely candidates for Ottawa to transact with.

The ones on the bubble include Vancouver and Columbus, who have the motivation, the cap space and the prospects. Possibly Phoenix.

IMHO there are, and will be, discussions with Chicago, who are maybe two players away from being a true Cup contender. The Spezza for Khabibulin deal may yet happen, but there are some complex negotiations that have to take place.

With a large number of UFAs in June, Anaheim is a potential trade partner...especially if they fall off the bubble.

So are teams with an abundance of good young players who want a real shot at the playoffs next year...like Los Angeles, and perhaps St Louis.

Trading up for Atlanta's pick is a credible option, as they would most likely pick Hedman, the Isles being likely to want Tavares, based on each team's needs.

I will be surprised if 'The Big Three' do not become 'The Big Two' or even 'The Big One' by draft day.

Brian Burke may come sniffing around in the meantime. He desperately needs to remake his team.

Finally, Craig Hartsburg's contract being what it is, his job as head coach is still not guaranteed beyond this season.

davetherave wrote:Here is what I suspect is going on...FWIW... :pirat:

Eugene Melnyk and Bryan Murray have already sat down and decided who stays and who goes.

Being the astute businessman he is, Melnyk has instructed Murray to get the maximum in return for the players who have failed to deliver on Gene's investment.

They have already discussed deals with a number of potential partners. Details are being worked out.

There is no 'rush' to trade anyone for that reason.

In this scenario, Melnyk and Murray expect that one or more buyers will agree to do business before the March deadline; and that more buyers will be ready to makle a move in June before the draft.

Following this line of thinking, and a close look at the sitautions and depth charts (in other words, my two cents), here are some observations and hypotheticals:

The Western teams on the playoff bubble are the most likely candidates for Ottawa to transact with.

The ones on the bubble include Vancouver and Columbus, who have the motivation, the cap space and the prospects. Possibly Phoenix.

IMHO there are, and will be, discussions with Chicago, who are maybe two players away from being a true Cup contender. The Spezza for Khabibulin deal may yet happen, but there are some complex negotiations that have to take place.

With a large number of UFAs in June, Anaheim is a potential trade partner...especially if they fall off the bubble.

So are teams with an abundance of good young players who want a real shot at the playoffs next year...like Los Angeles, and perhaps St Louis.

Trading up for Atlanta's pick is a credible option, as they would most likely pick Hedman, the Isles being likely to want Tavares, based on each team's needs.

I will be surprised if 'The Big Three' do not become 'The Big Two' or even 'The Big One' by draft day.

Brian Burke may come sniffing around in the meantime. He desperately needs to remake his team.

Finally, Craig Hartsburg's contract being what it is, his job as head coach is still not guaranteed beyond this season.

With Toews, Kane, Versteeg, Keith, ... all up for renewal in the coming years, I highly doubt Chicago has any interest in Spezza.
The Burke theory is interesting though. I've always had a feeling that Spezza would flourish (and possibly even rather) playing in Toronto. He's a local boy and it would be the equivalent to Lecavalier winding up in MTL... If we traded him to Toronto before the draft, we could (theoretically) get a king's ransom. If we could get a Cowen/Schroeder draft, we would be in very good shape going forward.
Would it be worth it? Only time would tell...but its an interesting thought.

I voted no. Unless this is part of a plan I mentioned recently to placate the fans until we are officially eliminated (or close enough to admit it publicly), Murray's non action during this season, coupled with his inability to secure a PMD has me thinking no.

Straight up, I want David Poile. I don't care if he is employed. Steal him Eugene.

cash wrote:With Toews, Kane, Versteeg, Keith, ... all up for renewal in the coming years, I highly doubt Chicago has any interest in Spezza.
The Burke theory is interesting though. I've always had a feeling that Spezza would flourish (and possibly even rather) playing in Toronto. He's a local boy and it would be the equivalent to Lecavalier winding up in MTL... If we traded him to Toronto before the draft, we could (theoretically) get a king's ransom. If we could get a Cowen/Schroeder draft, we would be in very good shape going forward.
Would it be worth it? Only time would tell...but its an interesting thought.

Ah yes, Mr Cash...but that assumes the Hawks keep Bryan Campbell for the entire length of his deal.

Don't forget he is not, at this point, their best defenseman...and still a very valuable asset that could be the key to another big trade.

Scotty Bowman works in mysterious ways. 8)

Why would Bryan Murray deal anyone right now? The trade deadline is going to be the ideal day to maximize his gains.

Murray is almost certainly going to be the belle of the ball if Florida keeps playing like they want to make the playoffs and decide against dealing Bouwmeester.

Guys like Kuba, Smith, Neil, McAmmond, Schubert, Donovan, Spezza, Vermette (and if they'd waive, Fisher and Phillips) all have value to different teams that want to go deep.

Trading anyone now means the Sens will 99.99% lose the trade. No questions asked.

I could see Murray dealing a bit player like McAmmond now, but the bigger pieces will go on March 4th. Murray has resisted moving a long-time Senator via trade, but that will happen. Neil will go, and I suspect at least one big (> 2 mil) contract will go as well.

I think Murray will deal Spezza, but not until he has lined up a replacement.

I personally still stand behind him. I think his draft record in the past two years shows that he knows much more about building a team than Muckler ever did. It will simply take time for it all to come to fruition. The problem is fans and owners get impatient. This guy will make the Sens a long term competitive team. It will take a few more years before he can seriously correct all of Muckler's mistakes.

PKC wrote:Why would Bryan Murray deal anyone right now? The trade deadline is going to be the ideal day to maximize his gains.

Murray is almost certainly going to be the belle of the ball if Florida keeps playing like they want to make the playoffs and decide against dealing Bouwmeester.

Guys like Kuba, Smith, Neil, McAmmond, Schubert, Donovan, Spezza, Vermette (and if they'd waive, Fisher and Phillips) all have value to different teams that want to go deep.

Trading anyone now means the Sens will 99.99% lose the trade. No questions asked.

Agreed.

Another aspect worthy of consideration IMHO is that hockey seems to be moving in a direction similar to baseball in that a certain, limited group of superstars who command huge money become the 'blue chip stocks' used to boost a team's performance and/or value in the short term.

Right now, if players like Hossa follow his lead, they can dictate the terms as they sign one year or two year deals with the highest bidder (as in Sundin's case).

These 'blue chip' players might, however, end up being swapped from team to team if the owners have their way and reverse the trend of No Trade Clauses. The argument would be, "OK, if you want the big dollars, we get to trade you as we see fit".

Right now, teams and GMs are severely hampered by NTCs and are ending up having to keep players who don't live up to expectations.

Another proposition, tabled by Brian Burke, suggests teams should be able to 'trade salary', meaning they could retain salary without a negative cap hit if they want to move a particular player whose salary is a barrier to a deal.

If either of these scenarios is in play, IMHO it is in Bryan Murray's interest to clean out the UFAs on his roster (Kuba, Neil, et al), as well as middle level players of questionable return on investment (Kelly, Vermette).

Just by taking off the books UFAs Gerber, Richardson, Kuba, McAmmond, and Neil, possibly RFA Bell, and Schubert, Murray trims 10.7MM from his cap, giving him 14.1MM in cap space. Moving Kelly or Vermette for draft picks would save him another 2-3MM respectively.

So Mr Murray could be working with over $15MM to shop with in this year's crop of UFAs.

If he trades well beforehand, he could also have a very interesting basket of draft picks and prospects.