Michel Ouellet on re-entry

BigRig77 wrote:

PKC wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:The price is right for Ouellet, I suppose, but I don't see what he brings to the Sens other than another guy to split time on the ice and in the press box. We need a D -- let's save our money for that.

Bouwmeester. Am I the only one willing to give whatever needs to be given to get this guy on our team?

I'm with you on that one 100%. The guy is awesome.

I really don't see how we could afford Bouwmeester... He'll probably be looking for upwards of $6M next year, and with the economy going the way it is, it appears as though the cap will either stay the same or go down. And then let's say we manage to get him without moving Spezza, then next year we'll have Spezza ($7M) Heatley (7.5M) Alfie (5.6M) and Bouwmeester ($6.5M) making a total of 26.6M which is just shy of what half the cap is. Do we really want to have 4 players take up half the cap. And taht is not even including Fisher (4.2M), cause we would probably have to give him up.

It's been looked into.

There are lots of trade scenarios where he fits under the cap.

I agree with Rooney. Where would Ouellet fit on the roster? Unless there's other moves planned.

Yeah, hard to say.

He's a guy I liked when he was with Pittsburgh, and he has career top-6 potential down the line, but I can't say I'd take anyone off our roster to put him in right now.

Last year with Robitaille, I'd have done it in a second. Now, I'd have to think it over.

dirtydirtynorth wrote:

I really don't see how we could afford Bouwmeester... He'll probably be looking for upwards of $6M next year, and with the economy going the way it is, it appears as though the cap will either stay the same or go down. And then let's say we manage to get him without moving Spezza, then next year we'll have Spezza ($7M) Heatley (7.5M) Alfie (5.6M) and Bouwmeester ($6.5M) making a total of 26.6M which is just shy of what half the cap is. Do we really want to have 4 players take up half the cap. And taht is not even including Fisher (4.2M), cause we would probably have to give him up.

I see this argument all the time, but really, it misrepresents things. The truth is that the Sens are doing what most elite teams around the league are doing in terms of managing their cap.

The fact is that most teams in *real* competition for the cup have about half their cap money allocated to a few key players. Here are just a few examples:

1. ANA: Getzlaf ($5.325) + Perry ($5.325) + Pronger ($6.25) + Niedermayer ($6.75) + Giguere ($6) = $29.650 mil.

2. DET: Hossa ($7.45) + Datsyuk ($6.7) + Zetterberg ($2.65 -- last year of this cheap deal, too) + Lidstrom ($7.45) + Rafalski ($6) = $30.350 mil.

3. PIT: Crosby ($8.7) + Malkin ($8.7) + Gonchar ($5) + Whitney ($4) + Fleury ($5) = $31.4 mil.

4. SJ: Thornton ($7.2) + Marleau ($6.3) + Michalek ($4.333) + Boyle ($6.666) + Nabokov ($5.375) = $29.875 mil. (Plus Blake at $5 mil, but he's clearly just a 1-year stop gap.)

And on and on. The fact is that that's how you build a team in the cap era: lock up a core of 5 players or so, who eat up about half your cap, and fill in the rest with plugs, cast-offs, bargains, and players on entry-level deals.

Looking at the Sens, it would appear they've put too much money up front:

Heatley ($7.5) + Spezza ($7) + Alfie ($5.575) + Fisher ($4.2) + no real superstar defenceman or goalie (nothing against Phillips or Volchenkov) = $24.275 mil.

Comparing our cap situation with those of other teams, I'd say we ought to be able to accommodate one more big contract ($6 mil-ish), just as many other teams have done. As long as we have Fisher on that contract, tho' -- that is, provided the cap remains the same or dips -- I'd say we're not going to be able to bring in an elite D and goalie. It will have to be one or the other. Here's to hoping Elliott pans out!

mattshock wrote:It's been looked into.

There are lots of trade scenarios where he fits under the cap.

I'm not worried about fitting him into the cap this year, it's the next year, and what we'll become because of it. We'd become even more of a one line team, considering i'm sure we'd have to trade away parts of our secondary scoring in order to get him. I'm sure with him on the backend, he'll make our team better, but when you have to fill 16 roster spots with $28M, or rather 5 roster spots with $7.125M (assuming Fisher is traded for Bouw), we would no longer become a contender to sign any significant free agents, and we would severely lack any secondary scoring, even more so than we are lacking now (how scary is that).

In my opinion, the only way we'll be able to fit Bouwmeester into the team financially will be to move Spezza. That doesn't interest me, even if we get Matthias back as well.

I keep crossing my fingers on Elliot. I realise it's a large amount of money to pay a goalie in the minors but, I'd really love to see what Elliot can do now as a backup to Auld. If it doesn't pan out then we either roll with the punches this year or we pick up a goalie at the deadline depending on where we are in the playoff hunt. I know that's all easier said then done. Just thinking out loud.

dirtydirtynorth wrote:

I'm not worried about fitting him into the cap this year, it's the next year, and what we'll become because of it. We'd become even more of a one line team, considering i'm sure we'd have to trade away parts of our secondary scoring in order to get him. I'm sure with him on the backend, he'll make our team better, but when you have to fill 16 roster spots with $28M, or rather 5 roster spots with $7.125M (assuming Fisher is traded for Bouw), we would no longer become a contender to sign any significant free agents, and we would severely lack any secondary scoring, even more so than we are lacking now (how scary is that).

In my opinion, the only way we'll be able to fit Bouwmeester into the team financially will be to move Spezza. That doesn't interest me, even if we get Matthias back as well.

See my post above. Most good teams in the NHL do precisely this, and it's disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

We have 5 UFAs coming up this year (McAmmond, Neil, Kuba, Richardson, and Gerber). McAmmond, Richardson, and Gerber are done; I imagine we will try to re-sign Neil, as long as the price is right; re-signing Kuba might be an option, depending on if we land a superstar D, how Kuba does this year, and what kind of salary he's looking for. Obviously, if we get Bouw, we dump Kuba.

That's four roster spots we need to replace next year (we don't need someone to fill in Richardson's role). I consider Bass ($513,333) and Lee ($1.275mil) as absolutely ready to go, and they will be part of the team next year. The other forward call up would be Zubov ($850,000) or Zach Smith ($583,333), I'd have to think. That's about $2.5 mil in salary. Then we either call up Elliott ($942,000) or sign a goalie for something under $4.5. Done and done.

I agree, tho', that we won't be able to sign an elite goalie and D this year, especially if a) all four high-money forwards are retained and b) it looks like the cap might be flattening out or trending downward. We will probably have to go for one or the other.

dirtydirtynorth wrote:

mattshock wrote:It's been looked into.

There are lots of trade scenarios where he fits under the cap.

I'm not worried about fitting him into the cap this year, it's the next year, and what we'll become because of it. We'd become even more of a one line team, considering i'm sure we'd have to trade away parts of our secondary scoring in order to get him. I'm sure with him on the backend, he'll make our team better, but when you have to fill 16 roster spots with $28M, or rather 5 roster spots with $7.125M (assuming Fisher is traded for Bouw), we would no longer become a contender to sign any significant free agents, and we would severely lack any secondary scoring, even more so than we are lacking now (how scary is that).

In my opinion, the only way we'll be able to fit Bouwmeester into the team financially will be to move Spezza. That doesn't interest me, even if we get Matthias back as well.

Moving Spezza is NOT an option. It doesn't make sense. Premiere D-men have been traded recently. See Boyle, Campbell, and to a lesser extend Blake, Meszaros, etc, and see that the trade return on them is NOT franchise players. It's been a young roster player with upside and a 1st rounder.

Vermette and a 1st clears up $3M, we already have $3.5M in capspace, he fits.

See Rooney's post for why adding Bouw at $6 or $7M would improve this team.

If the deal comes along, I say take it and we're laughing. Bouwmeester would contribute more to our overall scoring than Vermette would. He could change the dynamic of the team.

mattshock wrote:

dirtydirtynorth wrote:

mattshock wrote:It's been looked into.

There are lots of trade scenarios where he fits under the cap.

I'm not worried about fitting him into the cap this year, it's the next year, and what we'll become because of it. We'd become even more of a one line team, considering i'm sure we'd have to trade away parts of our secondary scoring in order to get him. I'm sure with him on the backend, he'll make our team better, but when you have to fill 16 roster spots with $28M, or rather 5 roster spots with $7.125M (assuming Fisher is traded for Bouw), we would no longer become a contender to sign any significant free agents, and we would severely lack any secondary scoring, even more so than we are lacking now (how scary is that).

In my opinion, the only way we'll be able to fit Bouwmeester into the team financially will be to move Spezza. That doesn't interest me, even if we get Matthias back as well.

Moving Spezza is NOT an option. It doesn't make sense. Premiere D-men have been traded recently. See Boyle, Campbell, and to a lesser extend Blake, Meszaros, etc, and see that the trade return on them is NOT franchise players. It's been a young roster player with upside and a 1st rounder.

Vermette and a 1st clears up $3M, we already have $3.5M in capspace, he fits.

See Rooney's post for why adding Bouw at $6 or $7M would improve this team.

If the deal comes along, I say take it and we're laughing. Bouwmeester would contribute more to our overall scoring than Vermette would. He could change the dynamic of the team.

Yeah exactly... I don't know why people insist on moving Spezza or thinking of moving Spezza without first line scoring coming... Like come on, 100 point players don't come around that often you don't just give them away for a defenceman, there's just no way... If Spezza gets traded for anything other than a franchise player coming back, i'll have a hard time supporting this team... That would be an extremely boneheaded move by management IMO....

rooneypoo wrote:I see this argument all the time, but really, it misrepresents things. The truth is that the Sens are doing what most elite teams around the league are doing in terms of managing their cap.

The fact is that most teams in *real* competition for the cup have about half their cap money allocated to a few key players. Here are just a few examples:

1. ANA: Getzlaf ($5.325) + Perry ($5.325) + Pronger ($6.25) + Niedermayer ($6.75) + Giguere ($6) = $29.650 mil.

2. DET: Hossa ($7.45) + Datsyuk ($6.7) + Zetterberg ($2.65 -- last year of this cheap deal, too) + Lidstrom ($7.45) + Rafalski ($6) = $30.350 mil.

3. PIT: Crosby ($8.7) + Malkin ($8.7) + Gonchar ($5) + Whitney ($4) + Fleury ($5) = $31.4 mil.

4. SJ: Thornton ($7.2) + Marleau ($6.3) + Michalek ($4.333) + Boyle ($6.666) + Nabokov ($5.375) = $29.875 mil. (Plus Blake at $5 mil, but he's clearly just a 1-year stop gap.)

And on and on. The fact is that that's how you build a team in the cap era: lock up a core of 5 players or so, who eat up about half your cap, and fill in the rest with plugs, cast-offs, bargains, and players on entry-level deals.

Looking at the Sens, it would appear they've put too much money up front:

Heatley ($7.5) + Spezza ($7) + Alfie ($5.575) + Fisher ($4.2) + no real superstar defenceman or goalie (nothing against Phillips or Volchenkov) = $24.275 mil.

Comparing our cap situation with those of other teams, I'd say we ought to be able to accommodate one more big contract ($6 mil-ish), just as many other teams have done. As long as we have Fisher on that contract, tho' -- that is, provided the cap remains the same or dips -- I'd say we're not going to be able to bring in an elite D and goalie. It will have to be one or the other. Here's to hoping Elliott pans out!

If most elite teams jumped off a cliff would you jump off a cliff too???? Just kidding...

Those are fair points, i had not thought of them. If we could afford J-Bouw, I'm all for it, he's a phenomenal player and could do great things. I'm just a pessimist by nature, and if we do get J-Bouw, and then our goaltending still sucks our hands will be tied and we won't have any cap space to improve...

I guess that is one thing that separates us from those other teams, they have solid goaltending.

I wouldn't say Detroit or Pittsburgh either have solid goaltending.

Fleury is streaky and prone to sofies/huge rebounds, and Osgood is sitting at the basement of the league in SV% last I checked.

smash88 wrote:Yeah exactly... I don't know why people insist on moving Spezza or thinking of moving Spezza without first line scoring coming... Like come on, 100 point players don't come around that often you don't just give them away for a defenceman, there's just no way... If Spezza gets traded for anything other than a franchise player coming back, i'll have a hard time supporting this team... That would be an extremely boneheaded move by management IMO....

In my defence, i did not insist on moving Spezza. I said the only way to afford Bouwmeester was to move Spezza, but that did not interest me, even if we got Matthias in return. I'm a long time Spezza advocate. Just wanted to clear the air.

If we land this guy, and all our D prospects pan out, can you imagine

Phillips - Bouwmeester
Volchenkov - Lee
Schubert/Carkner/M. Karlsson/Richardson:) - E. Karlsson

That would be among the best in the league for SURE.

mattshock wrote:I wouldn't say Detroit or Pittsburgh either have solid goaltending.

Fleury is streaky and prone to sofies/huge rebounds, and Osgood is sitting at the basement of the league in SV% last I checked.

Last year Pittsburgh was 10th is Goals Against and Detroit was first. I agree that Osgood is grotesquely overrated, but he does the job, at least enough for them to win.

And I hate Fleury, but he was tied for 4th best save percentage last year...

mattshock wrote:If we land this guy, and all our D prospects pan out, can you imagine

Phillips - Bouwmeester
Volchenkov - Lee
Schubert/Carkner/M. Karlsson/Richardson:) - E. Karlsson

That would be among the best in the league for SURE.

I would like to think Picard would be consistent enough to play with Karlsson... Especially since Picard is a bigger body, and can hit. I would really like him to play with Smith this year, so that J-Smith could take him under his wing and mold him into the defenceman we know he could be.

Oops, I forgot Picard.

Definitely put him in that slot!

I can't believe Oulette cleared re-entry waivers. Real surprised.