Prospecting Prospect - End of Season 18/19

He's been getting better and better as he goes along. Dont see why that can't translate to the nhl

I see him as a second pairing guy and Thomson as a 3rd pairing guy. If the plan is to run

Chabot-XXXX
Sanderson-JBD
Brannstrom-Thomson

Mixed in with Wolanin or whoever else, I fail to see what the point of moving up to draft Kleven was. Unless the plan long-term is:

Chabot-JBD
Sanderson-Brannstrom
Klevin-Thomson

Thomson is not gonna make it unless major changes are made.

Kleven was taken because the word was apparently out about him being a machine on the backend. I bet a couple of teams were interested, but Ottawa had the pciks to do it.

As flo said, it doesnt help to not say good things about him if you're the assistant coach, but he said some pretty high level things about him and especially Sanderson.

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:I see him as a second pairing guy and Thomson as a 3rd pairing guy. If the plan is to run

Chabot-XXXX
Sanderson-JBD
Brannstrom-Thomson

Mixed in with Wolanin or whoever else, I fail to see what the point of moving up to draft Kleven was. Unless the plan long-term is:

Chabot-JBD
Sanderson-Brannstrom
Klevin-Thomson

Because again teams don’t draft based on need especially after the first. If they see a guy they really like they pick him or move up to get him. Nobody is thinking about how the nhl roster shapes up when they are making these picks. Most second rounders won’t even make the nhl. Same thing with Sogaard last year. They are picking who they think is the best and gathering those assets. The roster and the best players will work themselves out. There’s no way the sens will be keeping and graduating all their prospects.

For sure, it doesn't matter at all. Stockpile prospects until you're blue in the face and use them as trade pieces when the window opens.

I knew Lundell had Bergeron upside, but wow his offensive game has evolved even more than Bergeron’s. My steal of the draft is exactly that right now. Florida thanks you Buffalo. Lundell may turn out to be even better than the 6-7 slot I had him in.

Lagoon wrote:I knew Lundell had Bergeron upside, but wow his offensive game has evolved even more than Bergeron’s. My steal of the draft is exactly that right now. Florida thanks you Buffalo. Lundell may turn out to be even better than the 6-7 slot I had him in.

It's fun to anoint winners a month after the draft.

Here's one:

Jarventie is 16th in league scoring while playing on the 3rd line and being used on the 2nd PP unit. No other player in the top 30 has a lesser TOI than he does. He's also playing with 2 20 year old and outscoring them soundly.

Imagine if he was getting top line ice?

Steal of the draft? Lol, I wouldn't proclaim that, but very impressive indeed.

Ev wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:I see him as a second pairing guy and Thomson as a 3rd pairing guy. If the plan is to run

Chabot-XXXX
Sanderson-JBD
Brannstrom-Thomson

Mixed in with Wolanin or whoever else, I fail to see what the point of moving up to draft Kleven was. Unless the plan long-term is:

Chabot-JBD
Sanderson-Brannstrom
Klevin-Thomson

Because again teams don’t draft based on need especially after the first. If they see a guy they really like they pick him or move up to get him. Nobody is thinking about how the nhl roster shapes up when they are making these picks. Most second rounders won’t even make the nhl. Same thing with Sogaard last year. They are picking who they think is the best and gathering those assets. The roster and the best players will work themselves out. There’s no way the sens will be keeping and graduating all their prospects.

i think it's completely untrue that teams don't plan their draft in concert with the farm system they have. I've heard it from several renowned analysts now that not only do they plan the draft in consideration of who is in the system but that they also make projections several years ahead while projecting where they place.

I think teams tell fans they are drafting BPA but that's far from the reality. I think there is a lot of educated guessing going on in certain cases as to who should be taken. I'm not saying every team does this but a number of successful teams do and also plan to accumulate certain picks a few years ahead of a draft because they forecast the quality of certain drafts.

so I'm sorry if I disagree with this notion that the draft lives on its own outside of the team's current and future needs. that's just a perpetuated fallacy to excuse from having to give your hand away too much.

Flo The Action wrote:

Ev wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:I see him as a second pairing guy and Thomson as a 3rd pairing guy. If the plan is to run

Chabot-XXXX
Sanderson-JBD
Brannstrom-Thomson

Mixed in with Wolanin or whoever else, I fail to see what the point of moving up to draft Kleven was. Unless the plan long-term is:

Chabot-JBD
Sanderson-Brannstrom
Klevin-Thomson

Because again teams don’t draft based on need especially after the first. If they see a guy they really like they pick him or move up to get him. Nobody is thinking about how the nhl roster shapes up when they are making these picks. Most second rounders won’t even make the nhl. Same thing with Sogaard last year. They are picking who they think is the best and gathering those assets. The roster and the best players will work themselves out. There’s no way the sens will be keeping and graduating all their prospects.

i think it's completely untrue that teams don't plan their draft in concert with the farm system they have. I've heard it from several renowned analysts now that not only do they plan the draft in consideration of who is in the system but that they also make projections several years ahead while projecting where they place.

I think teams tell fans they are drafting BPA but that's far from the reality. I think there is a lot of educated guessing going on in certain cases as to who should be taken. I'm not saying every team does this but a number of successful teams do and also plan to accumulate certain picks a few years ahead of a draft because they forecast the quality of certain drafts.  

so I'm sorry if I disagree with this notion that the draft lives on its own outside of the team's current and future needs. that's just a perpetuated fallacy to excuse from having to give your hand away too much.  

At the top of the first you could make a better argument to pick based on need since the player is closer to the NHL and some are just no brainer, surefire guys. I can guarantee you the Sens have their board and they stick to it and it has nothing to do with need, hence why they chose Sanderson and Kleven. Most teams would operate the same way. I always say this, but this isn't the NFL or NBA, these guys are years away so it's pointless to project any pick on your current roster outlook outside of the top players. You stockpile the best assets and then you can make decisions and trades later on.

Flo The Action wrote:

Ev wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:I see him as a second pairing guy and Thomson as a 3rd pairing guy. If the plan is to run

Chabot-XXXX
Sanderson-JBD
Brannstrom-Thomson

Mixed in with Wolanin or whoever else, I fail to see what the point of moving up to draft Kleven was. Unless the plan long-term is:

Chabot-JBD
Sanderson-Brannstrom
Klevin-Thomson

Because again teams don’t draft based on need especially after the first. If they see a guy they really like they pick him or move up to get him. Nobody is thinking about how the nhl roster shapes up when they are making these picks. Most second rounders won’t even make the nhl. Same thing with Sogaard last year. They are picking who they think is the best and gathering those assets. The roster and the best players will work themselves out. There’s no way the sens will be keeping and graduating all their prospects.

i think it's completely untrue that teams don't plan their draft in concert with the farm system they have. I've heard it from several renowned analysts now that not only do they plan the draft in consideration of who is in the system but that they also make projections several years ahead while projecting where they place.

I think teams tell fans they are drafting BPA but that's far from the reality. I think there is a lot of educated guessing going on in certain cases as to who should be taken. I'm not saying every team does this but a number of successful teams do and also plan to accumulate certain picks a few years ahead of a draft because they forecast the quality of certain drafts.  

so I'm sorry if I disagree with this notion that the draft lives on its own outside of the team's current and future needs. that's just a perpetuated fallacy to excuse from having to give your hand away too much.  

Minnesota Timberwolves drafted BPA in in the 2009 NBA draft. They had 3 first rd picks - #5, #6, and #18. They drafted three point guards because they thought they were the best players available. It was renowned to be one of the worst drafts ever by a North American franchise. #6 overall played only 3 seasons in the NBA while the other two players played (or are playing) 8+ years. Not only that, they left a ton of talent on the board including Steph Curry who went #7, DeRozan who went #9, Jrue Holliday, James Johnson, etc. All because they didn't draft by need and instead drafted who they thought was the best player. You can't win this way.

BPA is the dumbest drafting philosophy. You simply can't build a team around it. You need to look at what you have in your current system, project out your prospects, and assess other variables (ie: your attractiveness to free agents, player connections, etc). Suffice is to say the Sens didn't really do either since I don't think they picked BPA or picked based on need. They just.....picked. Klevin - zero sense. Sanderson - debatable at #5 (better options available). Greig - there was more talent on the board (allegedly - i am not a scout).

So for those like myself who are skeptical of the draft and Ottawa's choices, we have every right to be. But we won't know until down the road so for the time being we just all have to hope that things work out.

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

Ev wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:I see him as a second pairing guy and Thomson as a 3rd pairing guy. If the plan is to run

Chabot-XXXX
Sanderson-JBD
Brannstrom-Thomson

Mixed in with Wolanin or whoever else, I fail to see what the point of moving up to draft Kleven was. Unless the plan long-term is:

Chabot-JBD
Sanderson-Brannstrom
Klevin-Thomson

Because again teams don’t draft based on need especially after the first. If they see a guy they really like they pick him or move up to get him. Nobody is thinking about how the nhl roster shapes up when they are making these picks. Most second rounders won’t even make the nhl. Same thing with Sogaard last year. They are picking who they think is the best and gathering those assets. The roster and the best players will work themselves out. There’s no way the sens will be keeping and graduating all their prospects.

i think it's completely untrue that teams don't plan their draft in concert with the farm system they have. I've heard it from several renowned analysts now that not only do they plan the draft in consideration of who is in the system but that they also make projections several years ahead while projecting where they place.

I think teams tell fans they are drafting BPA but that's far from the reality. I think there is a lot of educated guessing going on in certain cases as to who should be taken. I'm not saying every team does this but a number of successful teams do and also plan to accumulate certain picks a few years ahead of a draft because they forecast the quality of certain drafts.  

so I'm sorry if I disagree with this notion that the draft lives on its own outside of the team's current and future needs. that's just a perpetuated fallacy to excuse from having to give your hand away too much.  

Minnesota Timberwolves drafted BPA in in the 2009 NBA draft. They had 3 first rd picks - #5, #6, and #18. They drafted three point guards because they thought they were the best players available. It was renowned to be one of the worst drafts ever by a North American franchise. #6 overall played only 3 seasons in the NBA while the other two players played (or are playing) 8+ years. Not only that, they left a ton of talent on the board including Steph Curry who went #7, DeRozan who went #9, Jrue Holliday, James Johnson, etc. All because they didn't draft by need and instead drafted who they thought was the best player. You can't win this way.

BPA is the dumbest drafting philosophy. You simply can't build a team around it. You need to look at what you have in your current system, project out your prospects, and assess other variables (ie: your attractiveness to free agents, player connections, etc). Suffice is to say the Sens didn't really do either since I don't think they picked BPA or picked based on need. They just.....picked. Klevin - zero sense. Sanderson - debatable at #5 (better options available). Greig - there was more talent on the board (allegedly - i am not a scout).

So for those like myself who are skeptical of the draft and Ottawa's choices, we have every right to be. But we won't know until down the road so for the time being we just all have to hope that things work out.

You’re comparing two different sports and two completely different drafting systems. It’s a completely irrelevant comparison and I already brought up the nba in my last post. You have the right to be skeptical of draft picks but not if you’re thinking the nhl is anything close to the nfl or nba drafts. The best teams in the nhl don’t draft based on need. The sens drafted on need in 2005 and made one of their worst decisions ever. If the nhl draft was for 20+ year olds it makes a lot more sense to pick based on need.

teams have their own BPA. When people say pick BPA they don’t mean pick the best player on some ranking. For what it’s worth the sens selected both Kleven and Greig lower than where they were ranked in bobs rankings. You can have your opinion, I really don’t care, but to say it makes zero sense to take Kleven who was picked around where he was supposed to be pick makes zero sense. Also you keep parroting “better options available”, but that doesn’t mean it’s true. Clearly the sens think otherwise. The most likely scenario is both you and I will be right and wrong on certain players. Some are going to become stars, some will never make the NHL, some will become ok/good, etc.

what has been concerning to me is what the sens deem BPA. time and time again they have prioritized character over skill and have time and time again been wrong about the character of players left to develop.

i'm not saying these are bad picks but for some reason they have left a lot better players on the board according to fans, analysts and scouts.
it's not like we're saying individually they are making bad choices but we did not swing for skill enough for the fences with the number of picks we had. Ottawa drafting is obsessed with a certain type of players and it hasn't produced that Corey Perry player they think it will one day yield.

Flo The Action wrote:

Ev wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:I see him as a second pairing guy and Thomson as a 3rd pairing guy. If the plan is to run

Chabot-XXXX
Sanderson-JBD
Brannstrom-Thomson

Mixed in with Wolanin or whoever else, I fail to see what the point of moving up to draft Kleven was. Unless the plan long-term is:

Chabot-JBD
Sanderson-Brannstrom
Klevin-Thomson

Because again teams don’t draft based on need especially after the first. If they see a guy they really like they pick him or move up to get him. Nobody is thinking about how the nhl roster shapes up when they are making these picks. Most second rounders won’t even make the nhl. Same thing with Sogaard last year. They are picking who they think is the best and gathering those assets. The roster and the best players will work themselves out. There’s no way the sens will be keeping and graduating all their prospects.

i think it's completely untrue that teams don't plan their draft in concert with the farm system they have. I've heard it from several renowned analysts now that not only do they plan the draft in consideration of who is in the system but that they also make projections several years ahead while projecting where they place.

I think teams tell fans they are drafting BPA but that's far from the reality. I think there is a lot of educated guessing going on in certain cases as to who should be taken. I'm not saying every team does this but a number of successful teams do and also plan to accumulate certain picks a few years ahead of a draft because they forecast the quality of certain drafts.  

so I'm sorry if I disagree with this notion that the draft lives on its own outside of the team's current and future needs. that's just a perpetuated fallacy to excuse from having to give your hand away too much.  

This is correct for most teams. There was a 0% chance Minnesota was taking anyone other than a C and the list goes on and on except for some teams. Nashville and Askarov if he was there. Winnipeg a C, Carolina a F. Some teams like Ottawa don’t have a plan or a wide-range of scouting so they just get by with their limited reach of the hockey world and always fall into the same tendencies and patterns of who billeted with who and who has a 3rd uncle that played pond hockey with a former SPHL star.

Lagoon wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

Ev wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:I see him as a second pairing guy and Thomson as a 3rd pairing guy. If the plan is to run

Chabot-XXXX
Sanderson-JBD
Brannstrom-Thomson

Mixed in with Wolanin or whoever else, I fail to see what the point of moving up to draft Kleven was. Unless the plan long-term is:

Chabot-JBD
Sanderson-Brannstrom
Klevin-Thomson

Because again teams don’t draft based on need especially after the first. If they see a guy they really like they pick him or move up to get him. Nobody is thinking about how the nhl roster shapes up when they are making these picks. Most second rounders won’t even make the nhl. Same thing with Sogaard last year. They are picking who they think is the best and gathering those assets. The roster and the best players will work themselves out. There’s no way the sens will be keeping and graduating all their prospects.

i think it's completely untrue that teams don't plan their draft in concert with the farm system they have. I've heard it from several renowned analysts now that not only do they plan the draft in consideration of who is in the system but that they also make projections several years ahead while projecting where they place.

I think teams tell fans they are drafting BPA but that's far from the reality. I think there is a lot of educated guessing going on in certain cases as to who should be taken. I'm not saying every team does this but a number of successful teams do and also plan to accumulate certain picks a few years ahead of a draft because they forecast the quality of certain drafts.  

so I'm sorry if I disagree with this notion that the draft lives on its own outside of the team's current and future needs. that's just a perpetuated fallacy to excuse from having to give your hand away too much.  

This is correct for most teams. There was a 0% chance Minnesota was taking anyone other than a C and the list goes on and on except for some teams. Some teams like Ottawa don’t have a plan or a wide-range of scouting so they just get by with their limited reach of the hockey world and always fall into the same tendencies and patterns of who billeted with who and who has a 3rd uncle that played pond hockey with a former SPHL star.

Lol. You're so full of Dung your eyes are brown.

PTFlea wrote:

Lagoon wrote:

Flo The Action wrote:

Ev wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:I see him as a second pairing guy and Thomson as a 3rd pairing guy. If the plan is to run

Chabot-XXXX
Sanderson-JBD
Brannstrom-Thomson

Mixed in with Wolanin or whoever else, I fail to see what the point of moving up to draft Kleven was. Unless the plan long-term is:

Chabot-JBD
Sanderson-Brannstrom
Klevin-Thomson

Because again teams don’t draft based on need especially after the first. If they see a guy they really like they pick him or move up to get him. Nobody is thinking about how the nhl roster shapes up when they are making these picks. Most second rounders won’t even make the nhl. Same thing with Sogaard last year. They are picking who they think is the best and gathering those assets. The roster and the best players will work themselves out. There’s no way the sens will be keeping and graduating all their prospects.

i think it's completely untrue that teams don't plan their draft in concert with the farm system they have. I've heard it from several renowned analysts now that not only do they plan the draft in consideration of who is in the system but that they also make projections several years ahead while projecting where they place.

I think teams tell fans they are drafting BPA but that's far from the reality. I think there is a lot of educated guessing going on in certain cases as to who should be taken. I'm not saying every team does this but a number of successful teams do and also plan to accumulate certain picks a few years ahead of a draft because they forecast the quality of certain drafts.  

so I'm sorry if I disagree with this notion that the draft lives on its own outside of the team's current and future needs. that's just a perpetuated fallacy to excuse from having to give your hand away too much.  

This is correct for most teams. There was a 0% chance Minnesota was taking anyone other than a C and the list goes on and on except for some teams. Some teams like Ottawa don’t have a plan or a wide-range of scouting so they just get by with their limited reach of the hockey world and always fall into the same tendencies and patterns of who billeted with who and who has a 3rd uncle that played pond hockey with a former SPHL star.

Lol.  You're so full of Dung your eyes are brown.

RightO.

I’m happy with my knowledge, but I keep getting better.

Keep grinding.

ok

Tomasino at the WJ’s for Canada. Awesome. This is going to be amazing.