Meddling Melnyk faces lawsuits.

Ev wrote:I don't see that cap'n. This marketing guy did a horrible job and acted so unprofessional

And should be happy for cashing 285k per year of Gene's money. Jumpin' Jiminy that's a lotta scratch!

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

spader wrote:

Ev wrote:I don't see that cap'n. This marketing guy did a horrible job and acted so unprofessional

What are you basing that on? The article doesn't say that.

Exactly.  There's nothing in that article to suggest anything other than Melnyk acted unprofessional at best and down right idiotic at worst.

That's literall his side of the story and nobody else. Don't be biased here. The marketing guy was unprofessional by whining about his bonus to the owner when he didn't perform for years

Melnyk can do whatever he wants. I have zero interest in knowing what goes on behind the scenes on the business side

Ev wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

spader wrote:

Ev wrote:I don't see that cap'n. This marketing guy did a horrible job and acted so unprofessional

What are you basing that on? The article doesn't say that.

Exactly.  There's nothing in that article to suggest anything other than Melnyk acted unprofessional at best and down right idiotic at worst.

That's literall his side of the story and nobody else. Don't be biased here.  The marketing guy was unprofessional by whining about his bonus to the owner when he didn't perform for years

Whining about his bonus? He was told he was getting a $20k bonus. You wouldn't ask about that? That's not whining.

EDIT: Also, if his performance reviews were all positive, then this is more of a problem of disconnect between Leeder and Melnyk that got visited upon the CMO.

Ev wrote:Melnyk can do whatever he wants. I have zero interest in knowing what goes on behind the scenes on the business side

Fortunately someone can't just do "what they want". There are certain laws of conduct and guidelines that companies have to operate by. I'm not saying Melnyk has actually done anything he shouldn't have done in this particular case. Like you I believe that this is only one side of an argument but I sure as hell wouldn't put it past him. The guy is reactionary as hell and sure hasn't shown that he can be an effaced owner. His alleged drunken handling have often been the subject of bungling of senators business.

Ev wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

spader wrote:

Ev wrote:I don't see that cap'n. This marketing guy did a horrible job and acted so unprofessional

What are you basing that on? The article doesn't say that.

Exactly.  There's nothing in that article to suggest anything other than Melnyk acted unprofessional at best and down right idiotic at worst.

That's literall his side of the story and nobody else. Don't be biased here.  The marketing guy was unprofessional by whining about his bonus to the owner when he didn't perform for years

The guy had a 2 year contract and was fired in the second year. That's not years. I think you're thinking about another guy here.

His linkedin profile says he was with the Sens 2 years, 4 months. That's long enough to make up your mind. He was also at The Ottawa Citizen for 13 years! No idea why he was ever hired by the Sens but it doesn't look like a Melnyk hire. Leeder hired him and when Leeder was gone so was he. Hate to sound harsh, but Leeder had his chance to run the team and failed. Attendance is down, haven't figured out how to stifle the Leafs/Habs fans at our own arena. In-game entertainment improvements consist of the Prime Minister races (which I love, but there should also have been another half dozen *new* ideas over his tenure).

The point isn't whether or not Leeder did a good job it was whether or not this guy was fired "with cause" or not and if Melnyk acted appropriately.

I know that. What I'm saying is that Leeder's performance review is not a good indicator of actual performance. So the whole argument about how he got favorable reviews goes out the window: of course you had good reviews, you were evaluated by a guy who wasn't very good at executive decisions/actions).

If he was in charge of marketing then he deserved to be let go. I don't think you will find too many people outside of his immediate family that would disagree on that.

Now, whether the suit has merit or not, that's a separate issue. I don't think he can argue much that he was unfairly dismissed but he could probably argue about harassment.

Leeder was there from the beginning.  I'm pretty sure if he was as terrible as you say they would have let him go long ago.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:Leeder was there from the beginning.  I'm pretty sure if he was as terrible as you say they would have let him go long ago.

I don't know about that. IMO! I think Leeder was adequate but if the sens are ever going to develop their brand into something more significant they need someone that can do a better job.
I always look at what the habs did in the early 2000's. They had a mediocre team and they turned this city around with fans identifying with the team. Wether they were good or not. A younger generation could really identify with the team and what it mean to be a habs fan. And that identity and momentum drove and is going to drive ticket and merchandising sales for years.
I don't see that in Ottawa. I think that's what needs to happen. There is so much we can say about the on ice product and yes, if Melnyk STFU that would help a lot but part of it has to be how strong the city identifies with the team. Not the die hard fans but the casual and younger fans. I don't see how the leeder administration did a good job coming close to that. If anything they cater to their die hards. Which will be there no matter what.

First of all, none of us are in a position to evaluate any of these guys. Are you guys serious? I've said it before and I'll say it again, you must be a real treat to work with, prags.

All good points except that the Habs have a much larger fan base to draw from and have a rich history. The Sens have barely been around by comparison. You're also dealing with a vastly different market when it comes to Ottawa and the fact that selling season seats to corporations isn't as easily done as other markets due to the fact that the majority of business is either government or corporations that have most of their dealings tied to government.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:Leeder was there from the beginning.  I'm pretty sure if he was as terrible as you say they would have let him go long ago.

He was here as an accountant. He only started doing everything when Mlakar left.

spader wrote:First of all, none of us are in a position to evaluate any of these guys. Are you guys serious? I've said it before and I'll say it again, you must be a real treat to work with, prags.

I've worked as a s/w manager for a number of years, and I've taken a few courses on goal-setting and evaluating performance. I've written my share of annual performance reviews. That snippet they had from Leeder's evaluation of O'Leary was quite weak from *my* vantage point, and for an executive role I would have expected even more. Objectives for an executive-level position cannot be to "prioritize the big rocks", "deliver high volume of output" or to work late. It should be more like "Grow STH base to X", "Improve in-game entertainment evaluation scores Y%", "Identify customers' three biggest concerns and develop plan to address them".

From those kinds of objectives the performance evaluation would have been something like "STH base decreased 10% YoY versus objective to grow by 10%". Other than the Prime Minster Races do we have anything you find interesting, funny or exciting before/after games and during intermissions? Are you still bothered by drunk, loud Leafs fans shouting "THIS IS OUR HOUSE" or Hbas fans chanting "Ole"? Has anything been done about any of this? The Centurion from the SCF was not his fault but the stench still remains because, frankly, nothing *NOTHING* has been done to allow us to forget it.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:All good points except that the Habs have a much larger fan base to draw from and have a rich history.  The Sens have barely been around by comparison.  You're also dealing with a vastly different market when it comes to Ottawa and the fact that selling season seats to corporations isn't as easily done as other markets due to the fact that the majority of business is either government or corporations that have most of their dealings tied to government.  

True. But this just means it's a challenge. Dallas fans shout "Stars" when they sing Start Spangled Banner; they even do that when visiting other rinks. Don't know how it started but we have nothing like that (United in Red?) Stars scoreboard operator trolls other teams. The only thing I can think of is the ill-fated clip of Spartacus making Habs players walk the plank a short time after Gainey's daughter was lost at sea. Can't believe I'm saying it but I actually kinda miss Cotton Eye Joe -- that's how bad it is now.

What will it take for Sens fans (the vast majority) to be loud and proud? I don't know, but it's not my job. Maybe "plant" some professional supporters/cheerleaders? Identify best fans in each section and give them some kind of prize. Dab cam? Really?

wprager wrote:

spader wrote:First of all, none of us are in a position to evaluate any of these guys. Are you guys serious? I've said it before and I'll say it again, you must be a real treat to work with, prags.

I've worked as a s/w manager for a number of years, and I've taken a few courses on goal-setting and evaluating performance.  I've written my share of annual performance reviews.  That snippet they had from Leeder's evaluation of O'Leary was quite weak from *my* vantage point, and for an executive role I would have expected even more.  Objectives for an executive-level position cannot be to "prioritize the big rocks", "deliver high volume of output"  or to work late.  It should be more like "Grow STH base to X", "Improve in-game entertainment  evaluation scores Y%", "Identify customers' three biggest concerns and develop plan to address them".

From those kinds of objectives the performance evaluation would have been something like "STH base decreased 10% YoY versus objective to grow by 10%".  Other than the Prime Minster Races do we have anything  you find interesting, funny or exciting before/after games and during intermissions?  Are you still bothered by drunk, loud Leafs fans shouting "THIS IS OUR HOUSE" or Hbas fans chanting "Ole"?  Has anything been done about any of this?  The Centurion from the SCF was not his fault but the stench still remains because, frankly, nothing *NOTHING* has been done to allow us to forget it.

This is a great example of you not getting it.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:All good points except that the Habs have a much larger fan base to draw from and have a rich history.  The Sens have barely been around by comparison.  You're also dealing with a vastly different market when it comes to Ottawa and the fact that selling season seats to corporations isn't as easily done as other markets due to the fact that the majority of business is either government or corporations that have most of their dealings tied to government.  

Go back to the late 90's and see that he habs weren't selling out games and the franchise wasn't so healthy. But you're right, they have more fans. I'm not saying we can pull the same results that the habs but we can definitely do better, it's been very average over in Ottawa.