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Hoff-Machine wrote:

spader wrote:

Hoff-Machine wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

PTFlea wrote:Sure there's room.   You don't sign bartkowski,  send Chabot back and call it a day, but again, I really wonder about seidenberg s speed.

I guess any question marks about Seidenberg should be addressed by his World Cup performance.  

I admittedly haven't watched much of the world cup (more on that later), but everything I'm reading is positive about Seidenber's performance.  Really hope the rumor is true.

All this tells me that Boro is not in long term plans for the sens.  

I think that's true. He's one of those guys that everyone likes because he works hard. But if his skill level isn't up to NHL standards, then there's nothing wrong with replacing him on the team. He's very Jesse Winchester. Seems like a good guy, has a great attitude and work ethic, but he's probably best suited for a different league.

I also think the sandpaper mentality is shifting away for the sens.  Makes sens since we end up taking a lot of penalties and Boro is a contributor to that.  Can't see Chris Neil getting another contract after this season either.

I expect that he'll hit his 1000 games and not much more than that. I think he has fewer than 30 games to reach the milestone.

Hoff-Machine wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

PTFlea wrote:Sure there's room.   You don't sign bartkowski,  send Chabot back and call it a day, but again, I really wonder about seidenberg s speed.

I guess any question marks about Seidenberg should be addressed by his World Cup performance.  

I admittedly haven't watched much of the world cup (more on that later), but everything I'm reading is positive about Seidenber's performance.  Really hope the rumor is true.

All this tells me that Boro is not in long term plans for the sens.  

No sooner do you get rid of a player like Borwiski and find yourself saying "gee, we could sure use a player like Borwiski."

Why do people dislike Boro so much? He plays hard, plays his defensive d-man role to a T, is a good teammate, works hard. He's a 6/7 d-man, but why do so many people on twitter and HF etc. want to rid themselves of him?

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Hoff-Machine wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

PTFlea wrote:Sure there's room.   You don't sign bartkowski,  send Chabot back and call it a day, but again, I really wonder about seidenberg s speed.

I guess any question marks about Seidenberg should be addressed by his World Cup performance.  

I admittedly haven't watched much of the world cup (more on that later), but everything I'm reading is positive about Seidenber's performance.  Really hope the rumor is true.

All this tells me that Boro is not in long term plans for the sens.  

No sooner do you get rid of a player like Borwiski and find yourself saying "gee, we could sure use a player like Borwiski."

Or you draft a guy hoping he'll be like Boro.

PTFlea wrote:Why do people dislike Boro so much?  He plays hard, plays his defensive d-man role to a T, is a good teammate, works hard.  He's a 6/7 d-man, but why do so many people on twitter and HF etc. want to rid themselves of him?

Because analytics.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

PTFlea wrote:Why do people dislike Boro so much?  He plays hard, plays his defensive d-man role to a T, is a good teammate, works hard.  He's a 6/7 d-man, but why do so many people on twitter and HF etc. want to rid themselves of him?

Because analytics.

Ppl on HFB dislike him because he said something stupid about how someone needs to reign in Karlsson from time to time. I don't hate him, I just think we can do better than him so why the heck not? Don't care much for the physicality he brings, I'd rather get that from chris neil not one of our dmen.

Hoff-Machine wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

PTFlea wrote:Why do people dislike Boro so much?  He plays hard, plays his defensive d-man role to a T, is a good teammate, works hard.  He's a 6/7 d-man, but why do so many people on twitter and HF etc. want to rid themselves of him?

Because analytics.

Ppl on HFB dislike him because he said something stupid about how someone needs to reign in Karlsson from time to time.  I don't hate him, I just think we can do better than him so why the heck not?  Don't care much for the physicality he brings, I'd rather get that from chris neil not one of our dmen.  

Again though, he's a 6/7 D-man, so it's not like he needs to be the next coming or anything, just a steady presence.

Certainly sounds like Seidenberg has done more than enough at the World Cup to warrant a contract. Now you start to wonder if Ottawa can still sign him or perhaps there'll be a more attractive destination for him out there (if Simmons was even right in the first place).

PTFlea wrote:

Hoff-Machine wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

PTFlea wrote:Why do people dislike Boro so much?  He plays hard, plays his defensive d-man role to a T, is a good teammate, works hard.  He's a 6/7 d-man, but why do so many people on twitter and HF etc. want to rid themselves of him?

Because analytics.

Ppl on HFB dislike him because he said something stupid about how someone needs to reign in Karlsson from time to time.  I don't hate him, I just think we can do better than him so why the heck not?  Don't care much for the physicality he brings, I'd rather get that from chris neil not one of our dmen.  

Again though, he's a 6/7 D-man, so it's not like he needs to be the next coming or anything, just a steady presence.  

I wouldn't call him that.  The top 4 is set and won't be changed at least this upcoming season, so naturally ppl will look at altering the bottom pairing.  

I'm just sick of seeing how from top to bottom, we get outshot handily.  I can't believe even the rookie tournament was showing the same trend.  It's going to take some time to reverse that trend in the farm system, but we have an opportunity to improve it at the NHL level, and sadly that means upgrading on boro, who isn't some transition game all-star.

If the Sens want to be a possession team, Boro probably doesn't fit the mould. He's a bit of a throwback defender. 

FWIW, I think people are engaging in this discussion because there are options to improve the team. If Boro is a 6/7 guy as people are fond of saying, maybe the Sens need a guy who isn't a borderline bench player. Maybe they get more 5/6 guys to play the bottom pairing and let a 7th D be 7th.

Hoff-Machine wrote:

PTFlea wrote:

Hoff-Machine wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

PTFlea wrote:Why do people dislike Boro so much?  He plays hard, plays his defensive d-man role to a T, is a good teammate, works hard.  He's a 6/7 d-man, but why do so many people on twitter and HF etc. want to rid themselves of him?

Because analytics.

Ppl on HFB dislike him because he said something stupid about how someone needs to reign in Karlsson from time to time.  I don't hate him, I just think we can do better than him so why the heck not?  Don't care much for the physicality he brings, I'd rather get that from chris neil not one of our dmen.  

Again though, he's a 6/7 D-man, so it's not like he needs to be the next coming or anything, just a steady presence.  

I wouldn't call him that.  The top 4 is set and won't be changed at least this upcoming season, so naturally ppl will look at altering the bottom pairing.  

I'm just sick of seeing how from top to bottom, we get outshot handily.  I can't believe even the rookie tournament was showing the same trend.  It's going to take some time to reverse that trend in the farm system, but we have an opportunity to improve it at the NHL level, and sadly that means upgrading on boro, who isn't some transition game all-star.

A lot of that is coaching imo.

spader wrote:If the Sens want to be a possession team, Boro probably doesn't fit the mould. He's a bit of a throwback defender. 

FWIW, I think people are engaging in this discussion because there are options to improve the team. If Boro is a 6/7 guy as people are fond of saying, maybe the Sens need a guy who isn't a borderline bench player. Maybe they get more 5/6 guys to play the bottom pairing and let a 7th D be 7th.

He's a bottom pairing dman who can step in and out of the lineup. If we can upgrade one of Boro or wideman it's a huge positive, although I like both, the Sens really need a veteran back there. Seidenberg would be perfect for that, plus he plays both right and left side.

I agree that he's a throwback dman though.

PTFlea wrote:

spader wrote:If the Sens want to be a possession team, Boro probably doesn't fit the mould. He's a bit of a throwback defender. 

FWIW, I think people are engaging in this discussion because there are options to improve the team. If Boro is a 6/7 guy as people are fond of saying, maybe the Sens need a guy who isn't a borderline bench player. Maybe they get more 5/6 guys to play the bottom pairing and let a 7th D be 7th.

He's a bottom pairing dman who can step in and out of the lineup.  If we can upgrade one of Boro or wideman it's a huge positive,  although I like both, the Sens really need a veteran back there.  Seidenberg would be perfect for that, plus he plays both right and left side.

I agree that he's a throwback dman though.

I think young Wideman is going to have a good year. I wouldn't be surprised if he got spot top-4 duty.

They also have a hate-on for Boro because of what Cameron said (how he wanted his whole team to play like Boro). Let's not forget that Boro was asked to play the right side with Cowen. He was fine when paired up with Wideman and not expected to be A-Train to Cowbun's Big Rig as the PK shut-down pairing.

Our 6th/7th d-man isn't making the difference between being a contender or not. Boro got tired of the Twitter/analytics community constantly pooping on him, so he called them out and quit Twitter. It's the same people who constantly poop on Chris Neil. The fact is that these two guys bring a big physical presence to the lineup that would be absent otherwise. Despite this being the "new" NHL, you still need a player or two that do what these guys do.

Agreed. Players like this are still needed (maybe less so when players like Brown, White, Paul are all in the lineup and plying like they could/should). But Boro is a bottom-pairing guy with limited skill, and he should not have been playing on his off-side with a first round bust. And Neil should never be the extra guy when they pull the goalie. I'd argue he should not be in the crease on a PP, either, as we have guys that are bigger with softer hands and quicker reflexes. They have their place, but I don't think Cameron was very good at using them properly.

wprager wrote:But Boro is a bottom-pairing guy with limited skill, and he should not have been playing on his off-side with a first round bust.  And Neil should never be the extra guy when they pull the goalie.

I think we'll see "better" player usage with the new and improved Scarface.

tim1_2 wrote:Our 6th/7th d-man isn't making the difference between being a contender or not.  Boro got tired of the Twitter/analytics community constantly pooping on him, so he called them out and quit Twitter.  It's the same people who constantly poop on Chris Neil.  The fact is that these two guys bring a big physical presence to the lineup that would be absent otherwise.  Despite this being the "new" NHL, you still need a player or two that do what these guys do.

For sure, we're definitely not the biggest team out there.