GUESS GAME: Hoffman's Term + Cap Hit

Oglethorpe wrote:

wprager wrote:Stone's AAV is $3.5M.

His pay this year is 2.25.  AAV means nothing unless he signs a3 year deal

Then we'll take up this discussion next year.

tim1_2 wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:

dennycrane wrote:He fully deserves more than 2. I think there is an understanding that for arbitration the player goes high and the team goes low although they have likely been negotiating a number somewhere in between. If Hoffman called up the Sens and said he would sign at 2.3, they would do it in a heartbeat. Look at Washington and Holtby (5.1 and 8.1). Both sides knew they wouldn't get that number but were preparing to try and establish a baseline with the arbitrator.

My guess is if it goes all the way, Hoffman gets 2.6.

I doubt the Sens are interested in paying him more tha Stone's 2.25M.

If he is awarded more than 3M look for him to be dealt.  

I think it's silly to assume he'll be traded if he crosses that $3M mark.  It's only a one-year contract.  I'm not saying he won't be traded, I just don't think he'll be traded because of the arbitration ruling.

Without silly assumptions we wouldn't have a message board. And SD wouldn't have that extra cash to buy a pack of gum.

wprager wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:

dennycrane wrote:He fully deserves more than 2. I think there is an understanding that for arbitration the player goes high and the team goes low although they have likely been negotiating a number somewhere in between. If Hoffman called up the Sens and said he would sign at 2.3, they would do it in a heartbeat. Look at Washington and Holtby (5.1 and 8.1). Both sides knew they wouldn't get that number but were preparing to try and establish a baseline with the arbitrator.

My guess is if it goes all the way, Hoffman gets 2.6.

I doubt the Sens are interested in paying him more tha Stone's 2.25M.

If he is awarded more than 3M look for him to be dealt.  

I think it's silly to assume he'll be traded if he crosses that $3M mark.  It's only a one-year contract.  I'm not saying he won't be traded, I just don't think he'll be traded because of the arbitration ruling.

Without silly assumptions we wouldn't have a message board.  And SD wouldn't have that extra cash to buy a pack of gum.

Yeah? Gum costs nothing these days? Nice!

rooneypoo wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:

dennycrane wrote:He fully deserves more than 2. I think there is an understanding that for arbitration the player goes high and the team goes low although they have likely been negotiating a number somewhere in between. If Hoffman called up the Sens and said he would sign at 2.3, they would do it in a heartbeat. Look at Washington and Holtby (5.1 and 8.1). Both sides knew they wouldn't get that number but were preparing to try and establish a baseline with the arbitrator.

My guess is if it goes all the way, Hoffman gets 2.6.

I doubt the Sens are interested in paying him more tha Stone's 2.25M.

If he is awarded more than 3M look for him to be dealt.  

I think it's silly to assume he'll be traded if he crosses that $3M mark.  It's only a one-year contract.  I'm not saying he won't be traded, I just don't think he'll be traded because of the arbitration ruling.

No no, Budget Logic clearly dictates that the same player we'd love to have on our roster for $2.5 mil is one we'd have to ship off for spare parts if there's a $500k difference or whatever.

I thought this off season might have shown us that there's absolutely no internal budget, but...I think there probably is...

We will see. Right now there's a lot of posturing from the send side of things. Wait till we see what the numbers look like

SpezDispensed wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:

dennycrane wrote:He fully deserves more than 2. I think there is an understanding that for arbitration the player goes high and the team goes low although they have likely been negotiating a number somewhere in between. If Hoffman called up the Sens and said he would sign at 2.3, they would do it in a heartbeat. Look at Washington and Holtby (5.1 and 8.1). Both sides knew they wouldn't get that number but were preparing to try and establish a baseline with the arbitrator.

My guess is if it goes all the way, Hoffman gets 2.6.

I doubt the Sens are interested in paying him more tha Stone's 2.25M.

If he is awarded more than 3M look for him to be dealt.  

I think it's silly to assume he'll be traded if he crosses that $3M mark.  It's only a one-year contract.  I'm not saying he won't be traded, I just don't think he'll be traded because of the arbitration ruling.

No no, Budget Logic clearly dictates that the same player we'd love to have on our roster for $2.5 mil is one we'd have to ship off for spare parts if there's a $500k difference or whatever.

I thought this off season might have shown us that there's absolutely no internal budget, but...I think there probably is...

Oh course there's a budget. The point is the budget is not the cap floor, that not every single bad thing that happens in the organization is traceable back to that one issue, and that having a budget hasn't cost us a single core player. If you have to pay Hoffman more than you were budgeting, you don't trade him away because he's $500k over what you had in mind. You still have plenty of other options, such as buyouts and trades -- and for all BM's talk about 'no buyouts,' buying out Greening will save the team money in the long run if they're convinced (as they should be at this point) that they'll never trade that contract without having to eat something equally bad in return.

My opinion is that if the number is something the Sens can live with, then they will buy out Greening and promote Puempel. If it goes to arb and is north of 3 then the will move Hoffman, keep Greening and promote Pumpel. Either way I believe they have a higher opinion of Pumpel than Hoffman.

SpezDispensed wrote:

wprager wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:

dennycrane wrote:He fully deserves more than 2. I think there is an understanding that for arbitration the player goes high and the team goes low although they have likely been negotiating a number somewhere in between. If Hoffman called up the Sens and said he would sign at 2.3, they would do it in a heartbeat. Look at Washington and Holtby (5.1 and 8.1). Both sides knew they wouldn't get that number but were preparing to try and establish a baseline with the arbitrator.

My guess is if it goes all the way, Hoffman gets 2.6.

I doubt the Sens are interested in paying him more tha Stone's 2.25M.

If he is awarded more than 3M look for him to be dealt.  

I think it's silly to assume he'll be traded if he crosses that $3M mark.  It's only a one-year contract.  I'm not saying he won't be traded, I just don't think he'll be traded because of the arbitration ruling.

Without silly assumptions we wouldn't have a message board.  And SD wouldn't have that extra cash to buy a pack of gum.

Yeah?  Gum costs nothing these days?  Nice!  

If you know where to pick it from.

So they went to arbitration I guess? It's after 9AM. How in the world do they not come to a 1 year, 2.8 million dollar deal?

SpezDispensed wrote:So they went to arbitration I guess?  It's after 9AM.  How in the world do they not come to a 1 year, 2.8 million dollar deal?

They can still settle any time before an award is issued.

Hoffman has a pretty strong case for his $3.4M, so his agent's advice might be just to see the thing through unless Ottawa comes close to that.

Oglethorpe wrote:My opinion is that if the number is something the Sens can live with, then they will buy out Greening and promote Puempel.  If it goes to arb and is north of 3 then the will move Hoffman, keep Greening and promote Pumpel.  Either way I believe they have a higher opinion of Pumpel than Hoffman.

My opinion is that Hoffman is 100% a part of this team next year regardless of how this plays out, with the only other option being trading him out for an upgrade. I believe the idea that we'd give up good talent over a few 100k's is laughable considering what the last 12 months have shown us. But that's me.

rooneypoo wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:My opinion is that if the number is something the Sens can live with, then they will buy out Greening and promote Puempel.  If it goes to arb and is north of 3 then the will move Hoffman, keep Greening and promote Pumpel.  Either way I believe they have a higher opinion of Pumpel than Hoffman.

My opinion is that Hoffman is 100% a part of this team next year regardless of how this plays out, with the only other option being trading him out for an upgrade. I believe the idea that we'd give up good talent over a few 100k's is laughable considering what the last 12 months have shown us. But that's me.

in this case I think it would be about getting rid of a bad apple in the room more than anything

Sens released a statement saying the arbitrator's ruling will not come any earlier than Sunday evening.

That's more than 72 hours later......at the earliest. Violating the 48 hour garbage written in the CBA. Clearly not enforced.

That said, if it's going to take a minimum of 3 days, maybe the arbitrator (or arbiter?) has a lot to ponder, which means both sides made good arguments.

Not sure why it takes more than 48 hours. Must be a reason

SpezDispensed wrote:Not sure why it takes more than 48 hours.  Must be a reason

Yeah. It's the long weekend, and that means lots of beer and sunshine.

Ev wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:My opinion is that if the number is something the Sens can live with, then they will buy out Greening and promote Puempel.  If it goes to arb and is north of 3 then the will move Hoffman, keep Greening and promote Pumpel.  Either way I believe they have a higher opinion of Pumpel than Hoffman.

My opinion is that Hoffman is 100% a part of this team next year regardless of how this plays out, with the only other option being trading him out for an upgrade. I believe the idea that we'd give up good talent over a few 100k's is laughable considering what the last 12 months have shown us. But that's me.

in this case I think it would be about getting rid of a bad apple in the room more than anything

Maybe. Kinda feel like that would have happened before now if that were the case. In any event, the idea that we're going to ship a guy off solely over a few 100 Ks is pretty hilarious. But here we go again, Budget!!! explains all.

Could be as simple as the arbitrator having a "day job" and he was busy Friday/Saturday.

But we all know the reason is the most obvious one -- budget.