Ottawa prospect Number 1

wprager wrote:You guys are setting yourselves up for disappointment. He had a very good WJC but I wouldn't say he dominated. He was a very versatile player (played both the PP and PK -- the only one to do it regularly, I think), he scored timely goals, always gave 100%, made it hard for the other team. Yet he did not necessarily dominate on a team that finished out of the medals.

Look, I'm not knocking the kid at all. It's a silly tournament. I'm much more excited about how his team won the Memorial -- a much harder tournament to win, IMO. But, again, although he was a very important cog in that machine he was not the "put contery on are back" cog.

In my opinion, in his first go at it he will be an effective third liner, not more. He's not a small guy, but he's not NHL big yet. He's not a slow guy, but I don't think he's NHL fast, not yet. He's not a plug, but he certainly does not have the high-end skillset. He's got intangibles coming out of his ears but he will need more than third line minutes and, I'm afraid, better (more experienced?) linemates to make the kind of impact some of you seem to be expecting.

I'd love to be proven wrong, I just don't see him doing very much in his first year. Wouldn't even surprised me if he ended up being sent back to junior for a while.

Even Neo didn't make the first jump.

Probably right on all accounts, but he still has Bergeron upside so that's what matters for this thread.

wprager wrote:You guys are setting yourselves up for disappointment.  He had a very good WJC but I wouldn't say he dominated.  He was a very versatile player (played both the PP and PK -- the only one to do it regularly, I think), he scored timely goals, always gave 100%, made it hard for the other team.  Yet he did not necessarily dominate on a team that finished out of the medals.

Look, I'm not knocking the kid at all.  It's a silly tournament.  I'm much more excited about how his team won the Memorial -- a much harder tournament to win, IMO.  But, again, although he was a very important cog in that machine he was not the "put contery on are back" cog.  

In my opinion, in his first go at it he will be an effective third liner, not more.  He's not a small guy, but he's not NHL big yet.  He's not a slow guy, but I don't think he's NHL fast, not yet.  He's not a plug, but he certainly does not have the high-end skillset.  He's got intangibles coming out of his ears but he will need more than third line minutes and, I'm afraid, better (more experienced?) linemates to make the kind of impact some of you seem to be expecting.

I'd love to be proven wrong, I just don't see him doing very much in his first year.  Wouldn't even surprised me if he ended up being sent back to junior for a while.

Even Neo didn't make the first jump.

Why does it matter what he does in his first year? That doesn't change the fact that he is their best prospect.

Yeah, I'm not 100% convinced that Lazar sticks with the Sens after 9 games.

wprager wrote:You guys are setting yourselves up for disappointment.  He had a very good WJC but I wouldn't say he dominated.  He was a very versatile player (played both the PP and PK -- the only one to do it regularly, I think), he scored timely goals, always gave 100%, made it hard for the other team.  Yet he did not necessarily dominate on a team that finished out of the medals.

Look, I'm not knocking the kid at all.  It's a silly tournament.  I'm much more excited about how his team won the Memorial -- a much harder tournament to win, IMO.  But, again, although he was a very important cog in that machine he was not the "put contery on are back" cog.  

In my opinion, in his first go at it he will be an effective third liner, not more.  He's not a small guy, but he's not NHL big yet.  He's not a slow guy, but I don't think he's NHL fast, not yet.  He's not a plug, but he certainly does not have the high-end skillset.  He's got intangibles coming out of his ears but he will need more than third line minutes and, I'm afraid, better (more experienced?) linemates to make the kind of impact some of you seem to be expecting.

I'd love to be proven wrong, I just don't see him doing very much in his first year.  Wouldn't even surprised me if he ended up being sent back to junior for a while.

Even Neo didn't make the first jump.

I don't think he'll be sent back personally, but I also wouldn't say the post I made before yours was setting myself or anyone else for disappointment. I'm just excited to see a blue chip part of our future play his first few NHL games - whatever happens after that, so be it.

Fair enough, maybe I'm straining too much to try and read between the lines. I sincerely hope that you are all right. I just can't get overly excited until I've seen this kid play against real NHLers.

Also, I am not entirely convinced that he has higher trade value than Stone or Ceci. Ceci wasn't great in his last year in the OHL and didn't really turn the AHL on its head, either, yet he came in and played like he belonged. He has far exceeded my expectations -- I thought he had the potential to be a top-four D-man but I thought it would take a couple years in Bingo before he ever cracked our lineup as a third-pairing guy. If his first season is any indication I think his ceiling just went up to a top-pairing, all-situations defenseman with very good offensive numbers who could be a Norris Finalist in a few years. On the other hand Stone's ascension has stalled due to injuries. He certainly has not disappointed, but he also hasn't done enough to even cement a top-six spot (Ryan is a lock, then Chiasson, Stone and Lazar are all competing for the other right wing spots, and only one of them can be in the top-six). Also, Stone's success in the second half had a lot to do with where he played. With Ryan recovered from his hernia he's probably staying on the top line, and if Chiasson grabs the second, then Stone is on the third line, and his time and offensive output will certainly take a dip.

He, without question, has the most trade value.

ya i casted my vote in Lazar's favor. A stone has shown a history of injuries and Lazar has a very high ceiling still and seems to be the most attractive piece we have to other GM's. who will have been the overall better player 10 years from now? hard to say but for now i'd say lazar sits atop the list.

You all realize that if I had cast my vote for Stone and not Ceci then it would be a 6-6 tie. So saying that he, without question, has the most trade value is just an opinion that is not backed up by anything at all.

So there are only 12 members who voted on this? Seems like it's premature to go to prospect 2. I'll wait another day to see what happens (likely not much, I know).

SpezDispenser wrote:So there are only 12 members who voted on this?  Seems like it's premature to go to prospect 2. I'll wait another day to see what happens (likely not much, I know).

There's only the 12 of us here in the summer. You need to hire a director of in-board entertainment.

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:So there are only 12 members who voted on this?  Seems like it's premature to go to prospect 2. I'll wait another day to see what happens (likely not much, I know).

There's only the 12 of us here in the summer.  You need to hire a director of in-board entertainment.

Hmmm, let me count all the money we make off this site and get back to you....

SpezDispenser wrote:

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:So there are only 12 members who voted on this?  Seems like it's premature to go to prospect 2. I'll wait another day to see what happens (likely not much, I know).

There's only the 12 of us here in the summer.  You need to hire a director of in-board entertainment.

Hmmm, let me count all the money we make off this site and get back to you....

It's been 2 minutes. What's taking you so long?

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:So there are only 12 members who voted on this?  Seems like it's premature to go to prospect 2. I'll wait another day to see what happens (likely not much, I know).

There's only the 12 of us here in the summer.  You need to hire a director of in-board entertainment.

Hmmm, let me count all the money we make off this site and get back to you....

It's been 2 minutes.  What's taking you so long?

Oh, I was done 2 minutes ago.

SpezDispensed wrote:Vote on ottawa's top prospect.

It's July 10. You're late, SD. New poll? My money is on Puempel or Lindberg this year.

EDIT: Or Paul.

wprager wrote:You guys are setting yourselves up for disappointment.  He had a very good WJC but I wouldn't say he dominated.  He was a very versatile player (played both the PP and PK -- the only one to do it regularly, I think), he scored timely goals, always gave 100%, made it hard for the other team.  Yet he did not necessarily dominate on a team that finished out of the medals.

Look, I'm not knocking the kid at all.  It's a silly tournament.  I'm much more excited about how his team won the Memorial -- a much harder tournament to win, IMO.  But, again, although he was a very important cog in that machine he was not the "put contery on are back" cog.  

In my opinion, in his first go at it he will be an effective third liner, not more.  He's not a small guy, but he's not NHL big yet.  He's not a slow guy, but I don't think he's NHL fast, not yet.  He's not a plug, but he certainly does not have the high-end skillset.  He's got intangibles coming out of his ears but he will need more than third line minutes and, I'm afraid, better (more experienced?) linemates to make the kind of impact some of you seem to be expecting.

I'd love to be proven wrong, I just don't see him doing very much in his first year.  Wouldn't even surprised me if he ended up being sent back to junior for a while.

Even Neo didn't make the first jump.

I'd say I was bang on except for the part about being sent back to Junior.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

wprager wrote:You guys are setting yourselves up for disappointment.  He had a very good WJC but I wouldn't say he dominated.  He was a very versatile player (played both the PP and PK -- the only one to do it regularly, I think), he scored timely goals, always gave 100%, made it hard for the other team.  Yet he did not necessarily dominate on a team that finished out of the medals.

Look, I'm not knocking the kid at all.  It's a silly tournament.  I'm much more excited about how his team won the Memorial -- a much harder tournament to win, IMO.  But, again, although he was a very important cog in that machine he was not the "put contery on are back" cog.  

In my opinion, in his first go at it he will be an effective third liner, not more.  He's not a small guy, but he's not NHL big yet.  He's not a slow guy, but I don't think he's NHL fast, not yet.  He's not a plug, but he certainly does not have the high-end skillset.  He's got intangibles coming out of his ears but he will need more than third line minutes and, I'm afraid, better (more experienced?) linemates to make the kind of impact some of you seem to be expecting.

I'd love to be proven wrong, I just don't see him doing very much in his first year.  Wouldn't even surprised me if he ended up being sent back to junior for a while.

Even Neo didn't make the first jump.

I think you're right for once.

Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:You guys are setting yourselves up for disappointment.  He had a very good WJC but I wouldn't say he dominated.  He was a very versatile player (played both the PP and PK -- the only one to do it regularly, I think), he scored timely goals, always gave 100%, made it hard for the other team.  Yet he did not necessarily dominate on a team that finished out of the medals.

Look, I'm not knocking the kid at all.  It's a silly tournament.  I'm much more excited about how his team won the Memorial -- a much harder tournament to win, IMO.  But, again, although he was a very important cog in that machine he was not the "put contery on are back" cog.  

In my opinion, in his first go at it he will be an effective third liner, not more.  He's not a small guy, but he's not NHL big yet.  He's not a slow guy, but I don't think he's NHL fast, not yet.  He's not a plug, but he certainly does not have the high-end skillset.  He's got intangibles coming out of his ears but he will need more than third line minutes and, I'm afraid, better (more experienced?) linemates to make the kind of impact some of you seem to be expecting.

I'd love to be proven wrong, I just don't see him doing very much in his first year.  Wouldn't even surprised me if he ended up being sent back to junior for a while.

Even Neo didn't make the first jump.

Why does it matter what he does in his first year? That doesn't change the fact that he is their best prospect.

Still feel the same way?

spader wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:Vote on ottawa's top prospect.

It's July 10. You're late, SD. New poll? My money is on Puempel or Lindberg this year.

EDIT: Or Paul.

Maybe we need to re-define (or even just define) the rules, here. What defines #1 -- is it, as Ev implied, what he does overall in his career (who cares what he does in year one) or is it the prospect you think will have the most impact this coming season, or is it simply the prospect you are the most excited to see as a pro?

For me, this year, I think Puempel has the best shot at grabbing a roster spot and contributing. We've already seen what he can do in the AHL and got a brief look at him in the NHL, and he certainly didn't look out of place (and was part of the comeback, for a while).

But overall, I think I'm most interested in Lindberg and Paul. I saw Lidber briefly at the DC the previous summer and he was (to me) the most impressive. Speed and size. He then went on and had a heck of a season in the OHL. Very interested to see what he does as a pro. And as for Paul, I think he's still growing into his body (he was undersized in his OHL draft year, didn't get drafted, now he's 6'4" and 220 -- that's a huge change in, what, 3-4 years? Takes time to adjust, strengthen and re-train your muscles. I think his ceiling is still unclear at this moment, but I think it can only go up from what we already expect.

I don't know enough about any of the latest draftees (Chlapik, Chabot, White, Gagne) to have anything resembling an opinion.