GAME DAY: Ottawa Senators @ Boston Bruins :: 3:00pm ET :: Sat. Feb. 8th, 2014

I take it we lost another afternoon game? Man, that's got to be on coaching. Absolutely no reason for this record. Embarrassing and pathetic. They should be ashamed of their record.

wprager wrote:I take it we lost another afternoon game?  Man, that's got to be on coaching.   Absolutely no reason for this record.  Embarrassing and pathetic.  They should be ashamed of their record.

A lot of it is on the players just not working hard enough, but we were really outcoached too. The Bruins space themselves so masterfully on the ice and Ottawa players basically had no room at all by the time they crossed the centre-line. Meanwhile the Bs regularly approached the Ottawa blue-line nearly uncontested. Apart from Zibanejad's efforts, we had no forecheck to speak of.

That has to change for us to compete in the long-term. They have to play with more fire and energy, and in the opposition end. Part of that is on the leadership group, part of that is on the coaches. But we had way more talent on the ice than a Chara-less Boston.

Like Neely said, you can't draw too much from one game. But the Sens also have given us this this season:



Pretty tough to watch.

#BlameMelnyk

asq2 wrote:

wprager wrote:I take it we lost another afternoon game?  Man, that's got to be on coaching.   Absolutely no reason for this record.  Embarrassing and pathetic.  They should be ashamed of their record.

A lot of it is on the players just not working hard enough, but we were really outcoached too. The Bruins space themselves so masterfully on the ice and Ottawa players basically had no room at all by the time they crossed the centre-line. Meanwhile the Bs regularly approached the Ottawa blue-line nearly uncontested. Apart from Zibanejad's efforts, we had no forecheck to speak of.

That has to change for us to compete in the long-term. They have to play with more fire and energy, and in the opposition end. Part of that is on the leadership group, part of that is on the coaches. But we had way more talent on the ice than a Chara-less Boston.

Like Neely said, you can't draw too much from one game. But the Sens also have given us this this season:



Pretty tough to watch.

That's all it is and that falls on leadership, whether you want to call that coaching, the guys with the letters, the vets, w/e. Fact is the best players yesterday was a 20 year old and 24 year old center in Zibanejad and Turris, and a 2nd and 3rd pairing defense. When the Sens play poorly that is usually the case and it's a disturbing trend.

Also you can say what you want about Cowen but his mind wanders when he is out there on a lot of nights and at some point you have to start questioning his general hockey sense along with how hard he plays the game. That pass on one goal yesterday where he just feathered it (or attempted to) to Turris is a prime example of playing the game soft and unfocused. There have been tons of examples of Cowen being out muscled by smaller but harder working players all year long as well. Everyone knows the amount of potential that is there from his size and general abilities but you look at his game and ask "does he actually get it?". It's a long drawn out process to develop a D man sometimes but with the depth Ottawa has on the blueline, especially the left side is it worth going through all the growing pains? IMO it depends what you are trying to accomplish.

IMO as I have stated Wiercioch is the guy that will end up being the better player and already is the better player. They were drafted a year apart and Wiercioch to this point has turned into the better player, he does things Cowen will never be able to do and everything he may struggle at can be taught.

In the end I guess it comes down to what they see in Cowen and what they want out of him. If it's just a shut down D man who can play physical then Ottawa has Methot, Phillips (may not be back), Borowiecki, and Claeson all either being legit NHL d men or close to it. The left side is jammed up and there will be a move and it will be one of Wiercioch or Cowen going forward and I have my obvious preference.

Again you have to question Cowen's work ethic and hockey sense at this point based on the way he has played the game a lot of the year. He still hasn't figured out how to be a pro when everyone works just as hard as you if not harder along with the consistency needed to be a solid NHLer.

Also, when do they put a bullet in Conacher aka Ryan Shannon without the talent.

Lol I wake up to another post about Cowen...do you realize this is basically his sophomore year? Sophomore slumps occur, especially for a guy who is coming off major surgery.

Joe Corvo does things that Cowen doesn't. Doesn't make him a better player.

Wier over Cowen is eerily similar to another decision made that crippled the franchise

Ev wrote:Lol I wake up to another post about Cowen...do you realize this is basically his sophomore year? Sophomore slumps occur, especially for a guy who is coming off major surgery.

Joe Corvo does things that Cowen doesn't. Doesn't make him a better player.

Wier over Cowen is eerily similar  to another decision made that crippled the franchise

I've always said Cowen needs time (a lot) to develop and he's coming off a serious injury as well.  It will take him time to bounce back.

As for the decision you are talking about... Cowen is not Chara and will never be Chara.  Chara is literally the hardest working player in the NHL, he's also  inches taller, has more hockey sense, and in general will always be the better player.  This is the part that drives me nuts about people who like Cowen, they compare him to Chara and Cowen will never be Chara, ever.  

As for comparing Wiercioch to Redden... well Wiercioch isn't a coke head playing in the dead puck era, he's also 6'5 and has done nothing but improve year after year while proving to be pretty durable.  

If they chose Wiercioch over Cowen it is nothing similar to Redden vs Chara. that's beyond reaching on your end.  

Also when I say Wiercioch can do things Cowen can't I should also say Wiercioch can do everything Cowen can for the most part and besides the physical part of the game Cowen really doesn't do anything better than Wiercioch.  They are about the same size, Wiercioch has more hockey sense (offensively and defensively), seems to be more coachable, more talented with the puck, and is not overly difficult to player with.  

A lot of those things in Cowen's game will get better and he does have that mean edge over #46 but I don't see a special player in the making.  I see a Coburn at best and fairly likely to be that.

I'm also not saying to just pack Cowen's bags and trade him but in the right deal that's the LH D man I move. I think Boroweicki is very close to being the guy they want Cowen to be with less offense and thus Cowen is much more easily replaced from within the organization than Wiercioch would be.

Cowen won't be Chara. Wider idiocy won't be redden. Pathetic comparison is in a lesser scale, but it's still taking a guy who basically just passes the puck over a guy who had the potential to do everything.

Wiercioch just looks better defensively because he faces much better opponents. It's not close who I'd put out with the game on the line.

Wiercioch will not be a special player lol

Ev wrote:Cowen won't be Chara. Wider idiocy won't be redden. Pathetic comparison is in a lesser scale, but it's still taking a guy who basically just passes the puck over a guy who had the potential to do everything.

Wiercioch just looks better defensively because he faces much better opponents. It's not close who I'd put out with the game on the line.

Wiercioch will not be a special player lol

I disagree, I think Wiercioch is going to be a 20-25 min a night D man who can score 40-50 points and play in all situation. Currently he is playing some easier minutes than Cowen but even earlier in the year Cowen was playing those same minutes and didn't look as good as Wiercioch does now. Will he be elite? No, I don't think so. Will he be on the level of say of a Markov (same kind of game), yah I think he will and I don't think I have waived from that opinion. He's also 6'5 and covers a ton of ice and that's tough enough to play against for other teams in the defensive zone. He's just a smart hockey player with a ton of talent.

I also think it's fair to say Cowen has received a lot more rope to find his game vs Wiercioch who has been taken in and out of the lineup all year long. Lately he has been consistent minutes and been kept in the lineup and he hasn't disappointed and IMO thrived as that 2nd/3rd pairing D man. Give him another season and he will be a key cog on the PP next to Karlsson and a LH shot they desperately need out there on the point (huge point of contention for me right now). Cowen on the PP won't likely happen IMO because I think he's a guy that wants to be an offensive D man but has limited puck skills and his injuries may have very well limited him reaching his potential... also think there is a serious lack of hockey sense which is an issue sometimes when you draft players who are just physically dominate as teens, it's tough to see.

Again I am not one of those people pushing Cowen out the door but if it's a matter of Wiercioch vs Cowen I have an obvious preference because of the reasons I listed and I think Cowen is more replaceable within the organization even if some of the guys don't have his potential. In the right deal if it were to come by Cowen is absolutely the guy I move and that's not for a rental or anything else that isn't a 5 to 10 year solution be it up front or on the point.

And just fyi this is the exact type of convo they are having right now in regards to who they keep for the long haul. I would say my side of the argument might be the losing end as well, I realize it's not the popular decision and based on Murray's track record he will always choose the big, burly D man vs the one with a ton of talent and won't play as tough. He's still the guy who had to be convinced to take Karlsson vs who knows who.

In a response to a question regarding Cowen's play yesterday.. McLean said he had a lot of help..

He said no one on the team played really well. He wasn't going to single out a certain player for his performance.

Cowen should not be paired with Karlsson. Karlsson needs a steady veteran D to cover up his defensive mishaps... Cowen is not ready for that role yet. He struggled yesterday and at a lot of times this season. He can't cover Karlsson's errors when he has trouble with his own..

It's not a matter of covering for Karlsson' errors it's a matter of finding the right D partner that won't take risks up ice and will be an outlet for Karlsson and a guy he can trust when he has the puck.

Karlsson moving up ice isn't an "error", Karlsson pinching in isn't an "error", you need a partner for him that's not going to try and be him or try the things that Karlsson does. Cowen wants to be more offensive and like skating with the puck and jumping up into the play and if Karlsson is your partner you can't do that with any kind of regularity.

sandysensfan wrote:In a response to a question regarding Cowen's play yesterday.. McLean said he had a lot of help..

He said no one on the team played really well.  He wasn't going to single out a certain player for his performance.

Cowen should not be paired with Karlsson.  Karlsson needs a steady veteran D to cover up his defensive mishaps...  Cowen is not ready for that role yet.  He struggled yesterday and at a lot of times this season.  He can't cover Karlsson's errors when he has trouble with his own..

My question is...Why are we looking for a veteran D presence to play with Karlsson because he is young and offensive.....yet everyone seems to think Cowen should be able to step in this early and be a rock??? Cowen is young and he needs to be handled better. He also needs a veteran dman to play with....and it sure as hell isn't Corvo.

This is a young team. It needs time.

Exactly... which leads me to say they need to make a choice between Wiercioch and Cowen because the blueline is way too young at this point. As you can tell by my posts I have a clear preference.

I like the mean element that Cowen can bring.....we have seen it in small instances but man, I wish he could bring it more often. I think he is overwhelmed with trying to play better defense, trying not to take penalties.....as the coaching staff wants, but in doing so....it takes him away from his strengths.

That game against Carolina last year when he returned from injury was absolute beast mode. I think he can be that guy, and you do not want to pass up the opportunity for that guy.....even it takes a little longer.

But he does look pretty out of place right now.....he is struggling no doubt. But the Worst thing that could happen would be panicking for faster results, the leafs did that for decades. Let's not be the leafs.

I like the element Cowen can bring as well just my projections are no where near as high as a lot of peoples. IMO Cowen lacks a serious amount of hockey sense that is going to limit his upside and IMO at the very best he will be a solid #3, 4 guy. I don't see him as a top pairing D man man let alone one that can provide offense or work the PP.

I wouldn't trade him unless the right deal came along where you could upgrade the D or top 6 up front for potentially 5-10 years but I would move him before Wiercioch that's for sure. Wiercioch is the better player right now and IMO that will stay that way for both their careers. There is very little Wiercioch can't do that Cowen can and a ton Cowen can't do that Wiercioch can...#46 is a better hockey player.

Too soon to give up on Cowen. Major injury last year, missed training camp this year. If he doesn't perform well next year...well...then he's Tyler Myers and you can do what you want with him.

Cowen easily gets another year without panic IMO. He needs four full seasons before I start to expect him to really round into who they drafted. (he hasn't even played the equivalent of 2 seasons yet.....we are panicking here people) If we are talking about when his value is highest its around that year 3-4 IMO....other teams know he is developing in those years and they are happy as hell to let someone else help him through those years.

I like Weircoch as well, but I think this is a case of safe or home run.....I see Cowen as the possible home run and I see Weircoch as the safe steady 3-4 dman.

Cowen has a chance to be a 1-2 dman (maybe a stretch), but should be a 3-4 with a mean side and and intimidation factor that few defenseman have.