GAME DAY: Minnesota Wild @ Ottawa Senators :: 7:30pm ET :: Wed. Nov. 20th, 2013

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:Yah I think you're missing the point entirely.

You're trying to make a panic trade to mix the team up, but you're getting balls value back.  No good.

Haha oh man, Anderson's value isn't going to increase for one. Two, getting a 2nd rounder or a couple of mid round draft picks is some value. Three, the team needs to be shaken up and this would be a good way to do it. Four, if you think things are bad in Ottawa now the chatter in the media and around the team with Anderson and Lehner all year is going to get to the point where people are going to be begging Murray to move Anderson in Feb/March.

Do it now, get it over with, get something useful back, and you still have a decent backup.

As for Lawson being a better goaltender than Dubnyk, lol, right.

asq2 wrote:I miss Chris Kelly.

Don't think the Sens are missing a Chris Kelly right now and even then it looks like Grant is a Chris Kelly in the making.

And if you want to call tranding Anderson a panic move then sure, because it's time to panic.  It's still a move that doesn't hurt the team short or long term and it helps avoid a lot of problems.  Getting value back isn't the biggest concern in Ottawa right now, getting the team back on track is. it won't be any worse than the Bishop deal has turned out to be.

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:Yah I think you're missing the point entirely.

You're trying to make a panic trade to mix the team up, but you're getting balls value back.  No good.

Haha oh man, Anderson's value isn't going to increase for one.  Two, getting a 2nd rounder or a couple of mid round draft picks is some value.  Three, the team needs to be shaken up and this would be a good way to do it.  Four, if you think things are bad in Ottawa now the chatter in the media and around the team with Anderson and Lehner all year is going to get to the point where people are going to be begging Murray to move Anderson in Feb/March.

Do it now, get it over with, get something useful back, and you still have a decent backup.

As for Lawson being a better goaltender than Dubnyk, lol, right.

My point was Dubnyk is hardly and NHLer, who would want him at his salary? Patience is key here at this point, if the market is bad for goalies right now, wait until a couple of big time goalies get hurt. If your return is a 2nd and Dubnyk, you say no IMO.

NEELY wrote:

asq2 wrote:I miss Chris Kelly.

Don't think the Sens are missing a Chris Kelly right now and even then it looks like Grant is a Chris Kelly in the making.

Does anything say "our team is Cussed" more than pining for Chris Kelly?

One thing's for sure, if Lehner doesn't start next game, I'm gonna go insane.

 

NEELY wrote:

asq2 wrote:I miss Chris Kelly.

Don't think the Sens are missing a Chris Kelly right now and even then it looks like Grant is a Chris Kelly in the making.

Eh he's a hard-worker, defensively responsible, and more importantly a leader (rotating A on Boston, former BSens captain). One of the Sens' biggest problems this year IMO has been the absence of any discernible fore-check. A lot of that relates to the inability of most of the D squad to move the puck forward, but I think it also has to do with the forwards lacking energy, motivation, and confidence -- which Kelly as a leader and example would help provide.

I'm not saying he'd singlehandedly save our season, but that's the kind of character-y, veteran, defensively-responsible player we need to be accumulating. The offensive talent on the team is sufficient, but they can't get much done if the team as a whole can't establish a consistent forecheck.

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:Yah I think you're missing the point entirely.

You're trying to make a panic trade to mix the team up, but you're getting balls value back.  No good.

Haha oh man, Anderson's value isn't going to increase for one.  Two, getting a 2nd rounder or a couple of mid round draft picks is some value.  Three, the team needs to be shaken up and this would be a good way to do it.  Four, if you think things are bad in Ottawa now the chatter in the media and around the team with Anderson and Lehner all year is going to get to the point where people are going to be begging Murray to move Anderson in Feb/March.

Do it now, get it over with, get something useful back, and you still have a decent backup.

As for Lawson being a better goaltender than Dubnyk, lol, right.

My point was Dubnyk is hardly and NHLer, who would want him at his salary?  Patience is key here at this point, if the market is bad for goalies right now, wait until a couple of big time goalies get hurt.  If your return is a 2nd and Dubnyk, you say no IMO.

Uhhh, no it isn't, lol. Dubnyk is good enough to be a good backup in the NHL so saying he is hardly an NHL goaltender is innacurate. Anderson's body of work is better than Dubnyk's by a mile but he has the EXACT same numbers as him this year.

I honestly can't believe you really think the Sens will get a top 4 D or top 6 forward for Anderson or a package deal with Anderson, what over the last 10 years indicates that moving a goalie gets you anything but draft picks and prospects? Seriously, give me ONE instance, anything. Only one I can think of is Luongo and that's because he's Luongo. Bernier, Bishop (twice), Lindback, Bobrovsky... only one in recent memory is Halak and Eller was a prospect at the time who has happened to work out and even then it was after a historical playoff run and his very highest value. Anderson is no where near that.

Patients has run out, this is a disaster in the making with Lehner/Anderson, and the team needs to be shaken up and is basically waiting for that to happen.

asq2 wrote:

NEELY wrote:

asq2 wrote:I miss Chris Kelly.

Don't think the Sens are missing a Chris Kelly right now and even then it looks like Grant is a Chris Kelly in the making.

Eh he's a hard-worker, defensively responsible, and more importantly a leader (rotating A on Boston, former BSens captain). One of the Sens' biggest problems this year IMO has been the absence of any discernible fore-check. A lot of that relates to the inability of most of the D squad to move the puck forward, but I think it also has to do with the forwards lacking energy, motivation, and confidence -- which Kelly as a leader and example would help provide.

I'm not saying he'd singlehandedly save our season, but that's the kind of character-y, veteran, defensively-responsible player we need to be accumulating. The offensive talent on the team is sufficient, but they can't get much done if the team as a whole can't establish a consistent forecheck.

Oh, for sure in that respect, the team is dying for anything resembling a vet presence in the dressing room and on the ice. I think the mix is wrong right now though and they need to run with the group that has a future in Ottawa and that's Ryan, Turris, Karlsson, Lehner. Might be young but those are the players that are getting the job done.

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:Yah I think you're missing the point entirely.

You're trying to make a panic trade to mix the team up, but you're getting balls value back.  No good.

Haha oh man, Anderson's value isn't going to increase for one.  Two, getting a 2nd rounder or a couple of mid round draft picks is some value.  Three, the team needs to be shaken up and this would be a good way to do it.  Four, if you think things are bad in Ottawa now the chatter in the media and around the team with Anderson and Lehner all year is going to get to the point where people are going to be begging Murray to move Anderson in Feb/March.

Do it now, get it over with, get something useful back, and you still have a decent backup.

As for Lawson being a better goaltender than Dubnyk, lol, right.

My point was Dubnyk is hardly and NHLer, who would want him at his salary?  Patience is key here at this point, if the market is bad for goalies right now, wait until a couple of big time goalies get hurt.  If your return is a 2nd and Dubnyk, you say no IMO.

Uhhh, no it isn't, lol.  Dubnyk is good enough to be a good backup in the NHL so saying he is hardly an NHL goaltender is innacurate.  Anderson's body of work is better than Dubnyk's by a mile but he has the EXACT same numbers as him this year.

I honestly can't believe you really think the Sens will get a top 4 D or top 6 forward for Anderson or a package deal with Anderson, what over the last 10 years indicates that moving a goalie gets you anything but draft picks and prospects?  Seriously, give me ONE instance, anything.  Only one I can think of is Luongo and that's because he's Luongo.  Bernier, Bishop (twice), Lindback, Bobrovsky... only one in recent memory is Halak and Eller was a prospect at the time who has happened to work out and even then it was after a historical playoff run and his very highest value.  Anderson is no where near that.

Patients has run out, this is a disaster in the making with Lehner/Anderson, and the team needs to be shaken up and is basically waiting for that to happen.  

Then make this your chance to make a much, much bigger trade involving any number of players.  Could be Spezza with Anderson to Florida, could be Michalek, could be Greening, could be Wiercioch, could be Cowen - and on and on.  This team needs to make a big splash - but, I'll agree with the sentiment that it shouldn't be a panic move, it should be pieces that can help beyond this year.

Trading Anderson is fine and dandy, but if we don't find a way to get a veteran forward and a veteran D-man somehow, this isn't gonna change.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

NEELY wrote:

asq2 wrote:I miss Chris Kelly.

Don't think the Sens are missing a Chris Kelly right now and even then it looks like Grant is a Chris Kelly in the making.

Does anything say "our team is Cussed" more than pining for Chris Kelly?

You need those kinds of players on your team and outside of maybe Neil we don't have them. You need those kinds of vets both for your team to perform well and for your young guys to learn from an example.

asq2 wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

NEELY wrote:

asq2 wrote:I miss Chris Kelly.

Don't think the Sens are missing a Chris Kelly right now and even then it looks like Grant is a Chris Kelly in the making.

Does anything say "our team is Cussed" more than pining for Chris Kelly?

You need those kinds of players on your team and outside of maybe Neil we don't have them. You need those kinds of vets both for your team to perform well and for your young guys to learn from an example.

Yeah, this has been the problem since the summer. I love MacArthur, he's a fantastic addition - and obviously Bobby Ryan is as well, but we're clearly missing a veteran on D and a veteran at forward. Very clearly. The hope would be this veteran can help put the puck in the net too though.

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

NEELY wrote:Yah I think you're missing the point entirely.

You're trying to make a panic trade to mix the team up, but you're getting balls value back.  No good.

Haha oh man, Anderson's value isn't going to increase for one.  Two, getting a 2nd rounder or a couple of mid round draft picks is some value.  Three, the team needs to be shaken up and this would be a good way to do it.  Four, if you think things are bad in Ottawa now the chatter in the media and around the team with Anderson and Lehner all year is going to get to the point where people are going to be begging Murray to move Anderson in Feb/March.

Do it now, get it over with, get something useful back, and you still have a decent backup.

As for Lawson being a better goaltender than Dubnyk, lol, right.

My point was Dubnyk is hardly and NHLer, who would want him at his salary?  Patience is key here at this point, if the market is bad for goalies right now, wait until a couple of big time goalies get hurt.  If your return is a 2nd and Dubnyk, you say no IMO.

Uhhh, no it isn't, lol.  Dubnyk is good enough to be a good backup in the NHL so saying he is hardly an NHL goaltender is innacurate.  Anderson's body of work is better than Dubnyk's by a mile but he has the EXACT same numbers as him this year.

I honestly can't believe you really think the Sens will get a top 4 D or top 6 forward for Anderson or a package deal with Anderson, what over the last 10 years indicates that moving a goalie gets you anything but draft picks and prospects?  Seriously, give me ONE instance, anything.  Only one I can think of is Luongo and that's because he's Luongo.  Bernier, Bishop (twice), Lindback, Bobrovsky... only one in recent memory is Halak and Eller was a prospect at the time who has happened to work out and even then it was after a historical playoff run and his very highest value.  Anderson is no where near that.

Patients has run out, this is a disaster in the making with Lehner/Anderson, and the team needs to be shaken up and is basically waiting for that to happen.  

Then make this your chance to make a much, much bigger trade involving any number of players.  Could be Spezza with Anderson to Florida, could be Michalek, could be Greening, could be Wiercioch, could be Cowen - and on and on.  This team needs to make a big splash - but, I'll agree with the sentiment that it shouldn't be a panic move, it should be pieces that can help beyond this year.

Trading Anderson is fine and dandy, but if we don't find a way to get a veteran forward and a veteran D-man somehow, this isn't gonna change.

K what? lol. I don't like the guy and even I can say without question you don't move Spezza right now, he gets 25 games as the captain? I think it's a matter of time before it's a complete fail but you don't just pull the plug, man, the circus around the team would be unreal.

Michalek, lol, no one is going to take Michalek unless it's a deadline deal so keep dreaming.

Wiercioch moving would be a small move, nothing more.

The team needs stability and they need 1 guy in the pipes... MacLean talked about being consistent but he's been just as inconsistent as the players this year and that's on him. Getting rid of Anderson removes 2 distractions from the room... the question of who is starting and the question of who the #1 guy is. Again, this is shaping up to be an absolute disaster if things keep going the way it is with the goaltending. The value in the trade is the team winning and Anderson will not get you a top 6 forward or a top 4 D man. No one is looking for a goalie at that cost and it's like that year in and year out.

SpezDispenser wrote:

asq2 wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

NEELY wrote:

asq2 wrote:I miss Chris Kelly.

Don't think the Sens are missing a Chris Kelly right now and even then it looks like Grant is a Chris Kelly in the making.

Does anything say "our team is Cussed" more than pining for Chris Kelly?

You need those kinds of players on your team and outside of maybe Neil we don't have them. You need those kinds of vets both for your team to perform well and for your young guys to learn from an example.

Yeah, this has been the problem since the summer.  I love MacArthur, he's a fantastic addition - and obviously Bobby Ryan is as well, but we're clearly missing a veteran on D and a veteran at forward.  Very clearly.  The hope would be this veteran can help put the puck in the net too though.

Again, not sure if people are paying attention to history, my posts, or just following common sense... NO ONE IS GIVING UP TOP 4 D MEN let alone a vet who contributes on a nightly basis, lol.  Seriously people are looking for things that can't possibly be fixed in season.

asq2 wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

NEELY wrote:

asq2 wrote:I miss Chris Kelly.

Don't think the Sens are missing a Chris Kelly right now and even then it looks like Grant is a Chris Kelly in the making.

Does anything say "our team is Cussed" more than pining for Chris Kelly?

You need those kinds of players on your team and outside of maybe Neil we don't have them. You need those kinds of vets both for your team to perform well and for your young guys to learn from an example.

Chris Kelly is a guy who makes a team better by supporting the top players of which there are not enough in Ottawa. He wouldn't help this team.

I give up. There's no talking with you sometimes. Of course veterans are available, it all depends on what you're willing to do to get them and it also depends on what teams feel they're on the outside looking in and want picks.

Buffalo would move some guys, Edmonton would probably think about making some moves - and on and on.

If Florida called and asked for Anderson and Spezza - and offered a good package, Murray would be a challenged for not thinking about it seriously.

I'll tell you what you can do with your Anderson for Dubnyk and a 2nd idea: shove it where the sun don't shine. The day we take a piece of Dung goalie making over 3.2 million is the day pigs fly across Ottawa. Forget it, bad idea anyway.

SpezDispenser wrote:I give up.  There's no talking with you sometimes.  Of course veterans are available, it all depends on what you're willing to do to get them and it also depends on what teams feel they're on the outside looking in and want picks.

Buffalo would move some guys, Edmonton would probably think about making some moves - and on and on.  

If Florida called and asked for Anderson and Spezza - and offered a good package, Murray would be a challenged for not thinking about it seriously.

There's no talking to me because I live in a reality world? lol. Oh really? What vets in Edmonton or Buffalo (that are available) are going to come into Ottawa's top 4 on the blueline or into Ottawa's top 6? Sure you could grab Havlat, Flieshmann, someone of that nature to plug into the top 6 for a little while, those guys are not hard to find. Defense, lol, you're kidding yourself if you can find a vet that's anything better than a #6, 7.

You know what, show me ONE D man over 30 that's available that would slid into a top 4 role in Ottawa, just one. Florida isn't going to move Campbell, Buffalo isn't going to move Ehrhoff, you know why? They are top 4 d men, lol.