GDT: - New York Islanders @ Ottawa, 7:30PM SNET/TSN1200

Oglethorpe wrote:I think that with the Turris progression and the potential of Zib ats a 2nd line centre the likelihood of Spezza being a Sen after next season is diminishing quickly. I would not be comfortable moving him before next summer but I am beginning to see the future push him out.

You can lose without Spezza too and they have already proven they can win without him. Spezza actually kills team structure and his play without the puck is maybe the worst I have ever seen it. He's not barring down on draws, absolutely no scoring chances at even strength, and people are getting moved off his line because no one can get him going.

Spezza's days as a #1, productive center are done. He can't compete with the likes of Crosby, Bergeron, Toews, Tavares, Giroux, Sedin, etc, etc, etc. He simple isn't strong enough, fast enough, or hard enough to win battles against the best and at 7 million dollars per year he isn't anywhere near worth that money.

People are starting to realize that Spezza's time in Ottawa was that of an underachiever just like a lot of people said he was. The NHL is a pure reflection of his days in Jr, the AHL, and internationally. His professional career highlight was the Spangler Cup.

If they can move him before the season is out and get a 1st rounder back from a team desperate to make the playoffs then they should give it a shot. The next real captain in Ottawa is Karlsson and everyone knows that as well, he makes his mistakes but he shows up and he has a ton of character, he's a leader.

Said it once and I'll say it again, the Sens will never win with Spezza as the go to guy and right now they are trying to force him to be when he isn't capable of it and never was. Only going to get worse here on out.

Ev wrote:Borowiecki called up

+1 for me on that one. I would think a trade is coming or Gryba is going down.

Oglethorpe wrote:Doubt it is Smith. 2 years from now I see Turris, Zib, Smith as the top 3 centres.  

Pop Lazar in there too.

Oglethorpe wrote:

NEELY wrote:Don't think Smith is going anywhere, he's been solid as can possibly be asked.  Greening/Anderson are my picks for sure and it needs to happen soon.  I also think it's possible one of Cowen/Wiercioch get moved at some point as well.  Cowen had a decent start last night but he then continued to struggle.

cowen had 1 terrible shift in the 2nd but was good other than that. Wiercioch will go before Cowen IMO.  

I think so too but doesn't mean I don't like Wiercioch long term more than Cowen. Both guys have to be a lot better though.

NEELY wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:I think that with the Turris progression and the potential of Zib ats a 2nd line centre the likelihood of Spezza being a Sen after next season is diminishing quickly. I would not be comfortable moving him before next summer but I am beginning to see the future push him out.

You can lose without Spezza too and they have already proven they can win without him.  Spezza actually kills team structure and his play without the puck is maybe the worst I have ever seen it.  He's not barring down on draws, absolutely no scoring chances at even strength, and people are getting moved off his line because no one can get him going.

Spezza's days as a #1, productive center are done.  He can't compete with the likes of Crosby, Bergeron, Toews, Tavares, Giroux, Sedin, etc, etc, etc.  He simple isn't strong enough, fast enough, or hard enough to win battles against the best and at 7 million dollars per year he isn't anywhere near worth that money.  

People are starting to realize that Spezza's time in Ottawa was that of an underachiever just like a lot of people said he was.  The NHL is a pure reflection of his days in Jr, the AHL, and internationally.  His professional career highlight was the Spangler Cup.

If they can move him before the season is out and get a 1st rounder back from a team desperate to make the playoffs then they should give it a shot.  The next real captain in Ottawa is Karlsson and everyone knows that as well, he makes his mistakes but he shows up and he has a ton of character, he's a leader.  

Said it once and I'll say it again, the Sens will never win with Spezza as the go to guy and right now they are trying to force him to be when he isn't capable of it and never was.  Only going to get worse here on out.

 You've outdone yourself, NEELY.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Ev wrote:I just want Luke Schenn...guy is a menace on the back-end. Not the best player but not paid like one either

We'll throw in a prospect or Michalek.

Michalek and Greg Anderson basically lost us the game. When is Lehner coming in?

Wanna talk about the game or just make the same comment over and over.

NEELY wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Ev wrote:I just want Luke Schenn...guy is a menace on the back-end. Not the best player but not paid like one either

We'll throw in a prospect or Michalek.

Michalek and Greg Anderson basically lost us the game. When is Lehner coming in?

Wanna talk about the game or just make the same comment over and over.

Sorry. I'm so used to blaming the same 2 guys over and over again, I didn't realize Greg Anderson didn't play this one.  

NEELY wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:Doubt it is Smith. 2 years from now I see Turris, Zib, Smith as the top 3 centres.  

Pop Lazar in there too.

I think Lazar will play wing.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:I think that with the Turris progression and the potential of Zib ats a 2nd line centre the likelihood of Spezza being a Sen after next season is diminishing quickly. I would not be comfortable moving him before next summer but I am beginning to see the future push him out.

You can lose without Spezza too and they have already proven they can win without him.  Spezza actually kills team structure and his play without the puck is maybe the worst I have ever seen it.  He's not barring down on draws, absolutely no scoring chances at even strength, and people are getting moved off his line because no one can get him going.

Spezza's days as a #1, productive center are done.  He can't compete with the likes of Crosby, Bergeron, Toews, Tavares, Giroux, Sedin, etc, etc, etc.  He simple isn't strong enough, fast enough, or hard enough to win battles against the best and at 7 million dollars per year he isn't anywhere near worth that money.  

People are starting to realize that Spezza's time in Ottawa was that of an underachiever just like a lot of people said he was.  The NHL is a pure reflection of his days in Jr, the AHL, and internationally.  His professional career highlight was the Spangler Cup.

If they can move him before the season is out and get a 1st rounder back from a team desperate to make the playoffs then they should give it a shot.  The next real captain in Ottawa is Karlsson and everyone knows that as well, he makes his mistakes but he shows up and he has a ton of character, he's a leader.  

Said it once and I'll say it again, the Sens will never win with Spezza as the go to guy and right now they are trying to force him to be when he isn't capable of it and never was.  Only going to get worse here on out.

 You've outdone yourself, NEELY.

I know you love Spezza and this is disappointing for you but he's not going to be the player people wished and prayed he would turn into.

I'll say it now, told you so. Been almost a decade battle to get people to see it but it's starting to come. Also, you can't really use that old "Ottawa and you hate skill" thing because frankly Karlsson, Turris, and Ryan are all skill and I think they are great.

Spezza is a joke of captain and even though he might get it a little more than he used to, the things he understands now he simply doesn't have the physical ability to do. Guy isn't a leader, never has been, never will be. His teams lose and they have for 15 years.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Ev wrote:I just want Luke Schenn...guy is a menace on the back-end. Not the best player but not paid like one either

We'll throw in a prospect or Michalek.

Michalek and Greg Anderson basically lost us the game. When is Lehner coming in?

Wanna talk about the game or just make the same comment over and over.

Sorry. I'm so used to blaming the same 2 guys over and over again, I didn't realize Greg Anderson didn't play this one.  

Interesting. As always, great analysis.

NEELY wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Ev wrote:I just want Luke Schenn...guy is a menace on the back-end. Not the best player but not paid like one either

We'll throw in a prospect or Michalek.

Michalek and Greg Anderson basically lost us the game. When is Lehner coming in?

Wanna talk about the game or just make the same comment over and over.

Sorry. I'm so used to blaming the same 2 guys over and over again, I didn't realize Greg Anderson didn't play this one.  

Interesting.  As always, great analysis.  

Thanks. I'll let you get back to scapegoating players you don't like. Not that that's repetitive.  

I disagree that he is a joke of a captain, but I agree with your analysis of him. Even then, we all (you included) felt he was the only choice for the C.

Oglethorpe wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:Doubt it is Smith. 2 years from now I see Turris, Zib, Smith as the top 3 centres.  

Pop Lazar in there too.

I think Lazar will play wing.  

Maybe but he's a born center. Hard in every zone, scoring touch, character out the a$$, and understands the game at a high level. You look at a team lie the Bruins and they basically have 2 centers on the ice at all times or at least guys capable of taking draws and it works, same with Chicago, Detroit, and all the other teams that win.

When the Sens are making the push to contender the centers will be Turris/Zibanejad/Lazar/Smith. All guys who can skate, play a hard game (in one fashion or another), can score a little, and know how to get the job done in their own zone. That's what wins cup, not #1's like Spezza and Pierre Turgeon.

I like Lazar to be a wing as well, as he plays the game like Dustin Brown, Ryan Callaahn, Ryan Kesler (even though he is also a center).

Either way, put him anywhere in the future and we will win. We need all guys like that. Turris, Zibanejad, Lazar, Smith, Simmonds (), Prince, Stone...guys with will.

NEELY wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:Doubt it is Smith. 2 years from now I see Turris, Zib, Smith as the top 3 centres.  

Pop Lazar in there too.

I think Lazar will play wing.  

Maybe but he's a born center.   Hard in every zone, scoring touch, character out the a$$, and understands the game at a high level.  You look at a team lie the Bruins and they basically have 2 centers on the ice at all times or at least guys capable of taking draws and it works, same with Chicago, Detroit, and all the other teams that win.

When the Sens are making the push to contender the centers will be Turris/Zibanejad/Lazar/Smith.  All guys who can skate, play a hard game (in one fashion or another), can score a little, and know how to get the job done in their own zone.  That's what wins cup, not #1's like Spezza and Pierre Turgeon.

Zibanejad has been playing better as a winger. Not sure why anyone would want to change that.

Ev wrote:I disagree that he is a joke of a captain, but I agree with your analysis of him. Even then, we all (you included) felt he was the only choice for the C.

100% the correct choice. Also, if you grew up with the people I have grown up with and around, everyone knows who Jason Spezza is... guy is trash off the ice and about the last guy you want leading a team. No one takes anything he says seriously because anything that comes out of his mouth that's a critique of someone is just lathered in hypocrisy.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:Doubt it is Smith. 2 years from now I see Turris, Zib, Smith as the top 3 centres.  

Pop Lazar in there too.

I think Lazar will play wing.  

Maybe but he's a born center.   Hard in every zone, scoring touch, character out the a$$, and understands the game at a high level.  You look at a team lie the Bruins and they basically have 2 centers on the ice at all times or at least guys capable of taking draws and it works, same with Chicago, Detroit, and all the other teams that win.

When the Sens are making the push to contender the centers will be Turris/Zibanejad/Lazar/Smith.  All guys who can skate, play a hard game (in one fashion or another), can score a little, and know how to get the job done in their own zone.  That's what wins cup, not #1's like Spezza and Pierre Turgeon.

Zibanejad has been playing better as a winger. Not sure why anyone would want to change that.

The evolution of him as a player. Right now, yah, he's fine on the wing and playing well. Long term he's going to be a center and I don't think people are really going to question that.

Ev wrote:I like Lazar to be a wing as well, as he plays the game like Dustin Brown, Ryan Callaahn, Ryan Kesler (even though he is also a center).

Either way, put him anywhere in the future and we will win. We need all guys like that. Turris, Zibanejad, Lazar, Smith, Simmonds (), Prince, Stone...guys with will.

Simmonds would be a great add, no question. He's the type of player that would fit into Ottawa like a glove.