Game Day - Columbus @ Ottawa, 7:00PM, Saturday, October 22, 2011

spader wrote:

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:He did the same thing against Winnipeg to put the game away.

Karlsson is the teams best player now though. Like I said, he controls the entire game from the time he gets the puck.

I could have sworn you just said it was Michalek in another thread.

yup

NEELY wrote:Honestly, does anyone not think Michalek has been the best Sen thus far up front and was the best forward the past 3 games (overall). I think it's pretty much a general consensus that he has been. That's all I am saying, tough for me to buy into Spezza being th 2nd star of the week and Michalek obviously being better that whole time.

You literally posted my comment and were still wrong about what I said.

This has become tedious, ridiculous, and annoying-ous.

SpezDispenser wrote:I'd say Karlsson first, then Michalek, but it's damn close. Both are playing ridiculous hockey. Same with Greening, although he's not as rewarded with points.

Sorry, I like the kid as much as anyone else, and I don't disagree that he is the face of the franchise, or at least standing in Alfie's shadow, but I don't think you can call him the best Sens player yet, not until he cleans up a bit more on the back-end. He was -30 last year and at his current rate will break that this year. Granted, we've had bad goaltending so that should improve going forward, but with all his offense if he is not + then that's not good. Maybe we should start including PP goals scored (and goals allowed) in the calculations of +/- to get a truer indication (after all, a goal is a goal). What are these CORSI numbers -- maybe they do a better job?

Anyhow, back to Karlsson. He is not a Jedi yet. But damn close.

tim1_2 wrote:This has become tedious, ridiculous, and annoying-ous.

That's what happens when you get three days between games.

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I'd say Karlsson first, then Michalek, but it's damn close. Both are playing ridiculous hockey. Same with Greening, although he's not as rewarded with points.

Sorry, I like the kid as much as anyone else, and I don't disagree that he is the face of the franchise, or at least standing in Alfie's shadow, but I don't think you can call him the best Sens player yet, not until he cleans up a bit more on the back-end. He was -30 last year and at his current rate will break that this year. Granted, we've had bad goaltending so that should improve going forward, but with all his offense if he is not + then that's not good. Maybe we should start including PP goals scored (and goals allowed) in the calculations of +/- to get a truer indication (after all, a goal is a goal). What are these CORSI numbers -- maybe they do a better job?

Anyhow, back to Karlsson. He is not a Jedi yet. But damn close.

He's playing 25+ minutes a night on a rebuilding team, I agree he needs to clean up his defensive zone work a little more, but the entire game literally runs through Karlsson for the Sens. He'll get better defensively, but as of now, I'd vote he's our best 'impact' player. Even more than Michalek and Spezza - and even Anderson.

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:I'd say Karlsson first, then Michalek, but it's damn close. Both are playing ridiculous hockey. Same with Greening, although he's not as rewarded with points.

Sorry, I like the kid as much as anyone else, and I don't disagree that he is the face of the franchise, or at least standing in Alfie's shadow, but I don't think you can call him the best Sens player yet, not until he cleans up a bit more on the back-end. He was -30 last year and at his current rate will break that this year. Granted, we've had bad goaltending so that should improve going forward, but with all his offense if he is not + then that's not good. Maybe we should start including PP goals scored (and goals allowed) in the calculations of +/- to get a truer indication (after all, a goal is a goal). What are these CORSI numbers -- maybe they do a better job?

Anyhow, back to Karlsson. He is not a Jedi yet. But damn close.

Karlsson might be the best offensive D man in the NHL at this point. Right now, he is controlling the games from the back end and running the leagues bes PP (or close to it).

Why can't we just accept players as they are? How about that? When we fall in love with someone, we do so unconditionally - that is, we accept them as they are, and cannot nor should we expect them to change.

If Wayne Gretzky couldn't (and I say this without really have seen him play) couldn't play defence to save his life, yet is known as arguably the greatest player of all time, should we crucify him or discredit what he has done for the game because of that "flaw"?

If Erik Karlsson only becomes a 70 point offensive player who can only do so because of the risky style he plays and taking chances to make things happen, should we not just be happy with that? That is why there are players in the league that are only good at defence - to be paired with this type of player.

Same thing with forwards (in this case, Spezza). Let him be who he is, and surround him with players that are not him.

And also, let us stop discussing the same thing (Spezza) in 3 different threads.

So for the sake of this thread:

Columbus should have won this game. They had it won until Spezza decided to take over. Sure, Alfredsson got hauled down on a short-handed breakaway (how this was not a penalty shot is beyond me). But Spezza made magic happen and tied the game and then assisted on the tying goal by Michalek.

Jason Spezza will not be Gretzky, Yzerman, or Crosby, or a dozen or so players in the NHL that are better two-way (or even one dimensional players). Just like he will not be a Fisher, Kelly or Staal.

Spezza is Spezza, and you either accept that or don't. But if you are going to carry on day after day about how he did this wrong, or that wrong, then what is the point? It is going to accomplish nothing, except conflict on this forum.

What SD said.

Dash wrote:Why can't we just accept players as they are? How about that? When we fall in love with someone, we do so unconditionally - that is, we accept them as they are, and cannot nor should we expect them to change.

If Wayne Gretzky couldn't (and I say this without really have seen him play) couldn't play defence to save his life, yet is known as arguably the greatest player of all time, should we crucify him or discredit what he has done for the game because of that "flaw"?

If Erik Karlsson only becomes a 70 point offensive player who can only do so because of the risky style he plays and taking chances to make things happen, should we not just be happy with that? That is why there are players in the league that are only good at defence - to be paired with this type of player.

Same thing with forwards (in this case, Spezza). Let him be who he is, and surround him with players that are not him.

And also, let us stop discussing the same thing (Spezza) in 3 different threads.

So for the sake of this thread:

Columbus should have won this game. They had it won until Spezza decided to take over. Sure, Alfredsson got hauled down on a short-handed breakaway (how this was not a penalty shot is beyond me). But Spezza made magic happen and tied the game and then assisted on the tying goal by Michalek.

Jason Spezza will not be Gretzky, Yzerman, or Crosby, or a dozen or so players in the NHL that are better two-way (or even one dimensional players). Just like he will not be a Fisher, Kelly or Staal.

Spezza is Spezza, and you either accept that or don't. But if you are going to carry on day after day about how he did this wrong, or that wrong, then what is the point? It is going to accomplish nothing, except conflict on this forum.

Ok, that's NOT what happened. You try and say something somewhat reasonable and then state something that isn't true in the least! At what point did he "take over". He won two huge draws so credit goes to him, but there were 5 guys on that ice that contributed to those 2 goals. It wasn't Spezza taking over, at all.

That's my problem, it's when people just say things that are not true like "Spezza took over and made magic happen". What magic was that? As far as I know he won 2 key faceoffs which were extremely important, then he got to the front of the net along with Michalek. The PP is 100% running through Karlsson right now and how anyone can say it isn't is beyond me. That's where the offense is being generated from.

Spezza knew exactly where to be along wiht Michalek on that tying goal, so good on him. He banged home the roubound in the ugly area, fantastic, that's where he had to be. He didn't take the game over, it was a PP that was run to perfection against a team waiting for something bad to happen.

That's what happened, it wasn't Spezza saying "I got this boys, lets go".

Listen Neely, I admit that spezza sucks and he's been nothing but a brainfart in his time here in Ottawa post-2007.....but that performance on Saturday night was MVP-like. Literally, spezza stole a victory away from the BJs.

Michallica wrote:Listen Neely, I admit that spezza sucks and he's been nothing but a brainfart in his time here in Ottawa post-2007.....but that performance on Saturday night was MVP-like. Literally, spezza stole a victory away from the BJs.

Oh dude. Watch those last 2 minutes again. Spezza didn't put the team on his back and carry them ala Crosby or Iginla or something. He was one of several contributing cogs. That's it.

Not to take anything away from him -- he won big faceoffs, scored a big goal, played a key role out there along with Alfie, Karlsson, Michalek, and Gonchar -- but let's keep this Dung semi-real here.

Michallica wrote:Listen Neely, I admit that spezza sucks and he's been nothing but a brainfart in his time here in Ottawa post-2007.....but that performance on Saturday night was MVP-like. Literally, spezza stole a victory away from the BJs.

That's not even remotly true either, haha.

Oh man, honestly. What happened on Saturday night was a freak thing and what won it for the Sens was a perfectly run PP that all 5 guys on that ice contributed too. Nothing more, nothing less. Spezza took over that game as much and Michalek or Karlsson did.

rooneypoo wrote:

Michallica wrote:Listen Neely, I admit that spezza sucks and he's been nothing but a brainfart in his time here in Ottawa post-2007.....but that performance on Saturday night was MVP-like. Literally, spezza stole a victory away from the BJs.

Oh dude. Watch those last 2 minutes again. Spezza didn't put the team on his back and carry them ala Crosby or Iginla or something. He was one of several contributing cogs. That's it.

Not to take anything away from him -- he won big faceoffs, scored a big goal, played a key role out there along with Alfie, Karlsson, Michalek, and Gonchar -- but let's keep this Dung semi-real here.

Seriously. Why do people feel the need to say things like that and then are shocked when someone respondes with how it actually went down.

The Sens PP looks really good right now, Spezza is a big part of that and for that PP to get going, they need to win draws and yes, with the help of the wingers when it isn;t won cleanly, it's all Spezza.

Id feel better if people just say "he took over in the faceoff circle". At least that you provide evidence too.

The Michalek goes was amazing. It was literally Alfie - to Spezza - to Gonchar who shoots perfectly to Michalek who tips it perfectly.

The Spezza goal was where I thought Spezza took matters into his own hands. Won a key draw, made a nice touch pass to...Gonchar I think, who made a great pass to Karlsson, who again, made a wicked shot that Michalek touched, to Spezza who slammed that Wing Dang Doodle home.

It's at least encouraging to see Spezza step up, but a 60 minute effort from time to time would be swell.

SpezDispenser wrote:The Michalek goes was amazing. It was literally Alfie - to Spezza - to Gonchar who shoots perfectly to Michalek who tips it perfectly.

The Spezza goal was where I thought Spezza took matters into his own hands. Won a key draw, made a nice touch pass to...Gonchar I think, who made a great pass to Karlsson, who again, made a wicked shot that Michalek touched, to Spezza who slammed that Wing Dang Doodle home.

It's at least encouraging to see Spezza step up, but a 60 minute effort from time to time would be swell.

I think I have said about 1000 times Spezza winning those draws was the key to the tying goal and the winning goal... how that has lead to people saying he took over the game when the PP functions the way it did/does is shocking to read and hear.

NEELY wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

Michallica wrote:Listen Neely, I admit that spezza sucks and he's been nothing but a brainfart in his time here in Ottawa post-2007.....but that performance on Saturday night was MVP-like. Literally, spezza stole a victory away from the BJs.

Oh dude. Watch those last 2 minutes again. Spezza didn't put the team on his back and carry them ala Crosby or Iginla or something. He was one of several contributing cogs. That's it.

Not to take anything away from him -- he won big faceoffs, scored a big goal, played a key role out there along with Alfie, Karlsson, Michalek, and Gonchar -- but let's keep this Dung semi-real here.

Seriously. Why do people feel the need to say things like that and then are shocked when someone respondes with how it actually went down.

The Sens PP looks really good right now, Spezza is a big part of that and for that PP to get going, they need to win draws and yes, with the help of the wingers when it isn;t won cleanly, it's all Spezza.

Id feel better if people just say "he took over in the faceoff circle". At least that you provide evidence too.

Have you ever seen a comeback like that by the sens? it was like Spezza said 'ok I've had enough, I'm ending this Dung' and then just took over. That MAY go down as the single greatest individual performance by a senators player.....EVER

I'm just going to assume it's sarcasim.