Game Day - Columbus @ Ottawa, 7:00PM, Saturday, October 22, 2011

tim1_2 wrote:

NEELY wrote:
Lindstrom is the only other guy in the NHL who see's the ice like Karlsson.

Joakim Lindstrom???

Linstrom... my bad.

Although Lindstrom has looked amazing for Colorado, people will know who he is by years end for sure.

NEELY wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:

NEELY wrote:
Anyways, like I said in the other thread if you want an exact calculation like faceoff percentage, go calculate it. 80%, 90%, 95%, it was said for effect to say Spezza did not have a very good game outside of the last 2 mins of play.

Meh. Spezza won important faceoffs towards the end of the game, and had a 3 point night, and did it when it mattered most. Those things go in direct contradiction to what you've been spouting off for the past few days (albeit, it is still early in the season).... Anyway, I'm happy to see him playing well (even if only for "2 mins" which results in a 3-point night).

You really think what happened on Saturday night would have happened to any other team other than Columbus? It wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for Alfi either.

He won key draws (which I already stated) and he is getting some dirty goals, full credit for that. Lets wait and see (like the Leafs) until they play some playoff teams before anyone is pounding their chest, Spezza, Kuba, Karlsson, or otherwise.

All I care about is I had Ottawa in my suicide pool and they pulled it off.

Alfie is a god. That said, he didn't have a very good 1st. Neither did Zibanejad, for that matter. He looked a little lost. Standing around on some plays, and on others he would go somewhere, then half way there either realize he was going the wrong way, or just confused whether he was supposed to be there, and go back. General confusion is how I'd describe it.

Regarding faceoffs, just what the hell is Spezza doing out there? I think he lost like his first three draws, then he went back to his drop-to-one-knee stance and won a couple. I saw Zibanejad trying something similar to that on the opening faceoff, but in his case it almost looked like he fell over, rather than Spezza's "I meant to do that" effort.

Is this something Konopka brought over? I'm not knocking it, because it seems to be working, but it looks bizarre.

Defensivly going down on one knee is more effective because you can launch the puck and it's not going to be going out of the zone like it would in the offensive zone. It's to get leverage on your backhand. Offensivly, the puck goes all the way to Anderson if it's won cleanly. Need a little more touch in the offensive zone.

Spezza has been good on the draw though and that's a huge reason why the PP is getting a ton of offensive zone time along with controlling the puck at the point.

wprager wrote:Alfie is a god.

You're not kidding. The guy has certainly lost a step over the years, but he is as crafty as ever. He was directly responsible for us winning that CBJ game (he drew the penalty in the dying minutes), and he scored that beauty against the Jets where he picked the pass out of mid-air, then walked in and wired one home.

From all accounts, he sounds like he is really enjoying himself...and hopefully this leads to him wanting to stick around for one more year (assuming he's somewhat healthy)!!! Can't have too much Alfie!

He did the same thing against Winnipeg to put the game away.

Karlsson is the teams best player now though. Like I said, he controls the entire game from the time he gets the puck.

NEELY, easy there on the Karlsson praise. He's been great, but he hasn't been *that* great. It really looks like McIver's record will fall this year (barring any significant injury) but Karlsson is a contributor to that powerplay, just like Michalek and Spezza. Of the three, Michalek has 60% of his points on the PP, Karlsson is at 55% and Spezza is 45%. Karlsson isn't getting something ridiculous like 3/4 of his points on the PP, so his -6 (compared to -3 for Michalek and -2 for Spezza) is telling me a story I've heard before. Except in Karlsson's case he's not being slammed for it nearly as much as Spezza. True, he's an undersized defenseman and 21 years old, but his +/- is a lot worse (and I take last year into consideration as well). Very similar, in some ways, except for the reaction from some, here. Spezza is a bum who cares more about points than defense, and Karlsson is a creative genius, the best offensive defenseman in the league, and the only reason the Sens have any goals at all this season.

Yeah, I exaggerated a bit, there. So have others

wprager wrote:NEELY, easy there on the Karlsson praise. He's been great, but he hasn't been *that* great. It really looks like McIver's record will fall this year (barring any significant injury) but Karlsson is a contributor to that powerplay, just like Michalek and Spezza. Of the three, Michalek has 60% of his points on the PP, Karlsson is at 55% and Spezza is 45%. Karlsson isn't getting something ridiculous like 3/4 of his points on the PP, so his -6 (compared to -3 for Michalek and -2 for Spezza) is telling me a story I've heard before. Except in Karlsson's case he's not being slammed for it nearly as much as Spezza. True, he's an undersized defenseman and 21 years old, but his +/- is a lot worse (and I take last year into consideration as well). Very similar, in some ways, except for the reaction from some, here. Spezza is a bum who cares more about points than defense, and Karlsson is a creative genius, the best offensive defenseman in the league, and the only reason the Sens have any goals at all this season.

Yeah, I exaggerated a bit, there. So have others

I like all the players you have mentioned above.

Enough with the Spezza talk, it's going on in THREE topics. It's the exact same conversation in every single one too. Just keep it to one so that the people that are sick of it don't have to have it shoved down their throats. Maybe NEELY could save us a lot of time and post counts by modifying his signature to say all the things he thinks are wrong with Spezza.

Back to the game...

Zibanejad should be sent "down" - wherever that means. Not because he sucks, but because he isn't doing anything spectacular. He's not putting up points, and I find he does look lost. I noticed he is hesitant to drive the net - he shoots a lot on the rush. He also looks awkward skating - maybe it is just his style, but he skates funny. Schieffele had a better time with Winnipeg and got sent down, so no reason why Zibanejad shouldn't.

When healthy, the Sens have a full NHL roster without him.

wprager wrote:NEELY, easy there on the Karlsson praise. He's been great, but he hasn't been *that* great. It really looks like McIver's record will fall this year (barring any significant injury) but Karlsson is a contributor to that powerplay, just like Michalek and Spezza. Of the three, Michalek has 60% of his points on the PP, Karlsson is at 55% and Spezza is 45%. Karlsson isn't getting something ridiculous like 3/4 of his points on the PP, so his -6 (compared to -3 for Michalek and -2 for Spezza) is telling me a story I've heard before. Except in Karlsson's case he's not being slammed for it nearly as much as Spezza. True, he's an undersized defenseman and 21 years old, but his +/- is a lot worse (and I take last year into consideration as well). Very similar, in some ways, except for the reaction from some, here. Spezza is a bum who cares more about points than defense, and Karlsson is a creative genius, the best offensive defenseman in the league, and the only reason the Sens have any goals at all this season.

Yeah, I exaggerated a bit, there. So have others

Don't think I ever brought up Spezza's +/- as a positive or a negative. I think the stat is stupid and tells next to nothing. It's a team stat and nothing else.

Don't think I have ever said Spezza is a bum, doesn't have the talent, or Spezza is useless. People take my crtisims and strong opinions on him as something other than what they are. Me saying Spezza isn't a complete hockey player or doesn't do the things needed to win isn't the same as saying he's useless or he's a liability. I don't think either is true.

Spezza has gotten me out of my seat with "HOLY SHlT" moments, the guy has a ton of talent. You have to take the good with the bad for sure, but people make him out to be something he isn't. That's where my problem lies, they also use games like Columbus to show how gifted a hockey player he is.

He is a very good hockey player who is a number 1 center on a bad team, probably a number 2 center, 1st PP unit type of guy on a good team or a contender. The Sens for sure need him right now for a lot of reasons but again, I have issue's when people just make things up and don't recognize a bad game when they see it.

The stat may be stupid but one thing a lot of people will say is that a guy who gets most of his points on the PP will have his +/- skewed a bit, since those points don't count.

Spezza has one fewer of his points on the PP, but the difference in +/- is 4.

You can say it's a stupid stat all you want, but the corner cases (stepping on just before a goal is scored) eventually even out.

People take your criticism and your strong opinions the way they do because of the way you present yourself. Your assessment of Spezza is overly negative, while your assessment of Karlsson is overly positive.

I don't make things up. In fact I go *way* out of my way to try to provide something concrete to make my point, instead of your blanket statements. And if anyone doesn't agree with you it's either they don't know hockey, or they are a Spezza apologist, or they rely on stats too much or any number of other excuses.

Point is -- fact of the matter, in fact -- that you are the worst offender when it comes to stating opinion as fact.

NEELY wrote:He did the same thing against Winnipeg to put the game away.

Karlsson is the teams best player now though. Like I said, he controls the entire game from the time he gets the puck.

I could have sworn you just said it was Michalek in another thread.

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:He did the same thing against Winnipeg to put the game away.

Karlsson is the teams best player now though. Like I said, he controls the entire game from the time he gets the puck.

I could have sworn you just said it was Michalek in another thread.

yup

NEELY wrote:Honestly, does anyone not think Michalek has been the best Sen thus far up front and was the best forward the past 3 games (overall). I think it's pretty much a general consensus that he has been. That's all I am saying, tough for me to buy into Spezza being th 2nd star of the week and Michalek obviously being better that whole time.

I'd say Karlsson first, then Michalek, but it's damn close. Both are playing ridiculous hockey. Same with Greening, although he's not as rewarded with points.

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:He did the same thing against Winnipeg to put the game away.

Karlsson is the teams best player now though. Like I said, he controls the entire game from the time he gets the puck.

I could have sworn you just said it was Michalek in another thread.

Best forward.

spader wrote:

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:He did the same thing against Winnipeg to put the game away.

Karlsson is the teams best player now though. Like I said, he controls the entire game from the time he gets the puck.

I could have sworn you just said it was Michalek in another thread.

yup

NEELY wrote:Honestly, does anyone not think Michalek has been the best Sen thus far up front and was the best forward the past 3 games (overall). I think it's pretty much a general consensus that he has been. That's all I am saying, tough for me to buy into Spezza being th 2nd star of the week and Michalek obviously being better that whole time.

You literally posted my comment and were still wrong about what I said.

This has become tedious, ridiculous, and annoying-ous.

SpezDispenser wrote:I'd say Karlsson first, then Michalek, but it's damn close. Both are playing ridiculous hockey. Same with Greening, although he's not as rewarded with points.

Sorry, I like the kid as much as anyone else, and I don't disagree that he is the face of the franchise, or at least standing in Alfie's shadow, but I don't think you can call him the best Sens player yet, not until he cleans up a bit more on the back-end. He was -30 last year and at his current rate will break that this year. Granted, we've had bad goaltending so that should improve going forward, but with all his offense if he is not + then that's not good. Maybe we should start including PP goals scored (and goals allowed) in the calculations of +/- to get a truer indication (after all, a goal is a goal). What are these CORSI numbers -- maybe they do a better job?

Anyhow, back to Karlsson. He is not a Jedi yet. But damn close.