Game Day - Columbus @ Ottawa, 7:00PM, Saturday, October 22, 2011

SpezDispenser wrote:The Michalek goes was amazing. It was literally Alfie - to Spezza - to Gonchar who shoots perfectly to Michalek who tips it perfectly.

The Spezza goal was where I thought Spezza took matters into his own hands. Won a key draw, made a nice touch pass to...Gonchar I think, who made a great pass to Karlsson, who again, made a wicked shot that Michalek touched, to Spezza who slammed that Wing Dang Doodle home.

It's at least encouraging to see Spezza step up, but a 60 minute effort from time to time would be swell.

I think I have said about 1000 times Spezza winning those draws was the key to the tying goal and the winning goal... how that has lead to people saying he took over the game when the PP functions the way it did/does is shocking to read and hear.

NEELY wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

Michallica wrote:Listen Neely, I admit that spezza sucks and he's been nothing but a brainfart in his time here in Ottawa post-2007.....but that performance on Saturday night was MVP-like. Literally, spezza stole a victory away from the BJs.

Oh dude. Watch those last 2 minutes again. Spezza didn't put the team on his back and carry them ala Crosby or Iginla or something. He was one of several contributing cogs. That's it.

Not to take anything away from him -- he won big faceoffs, scored a big goal, played a key role out there along with Alfie, Karlsson, Michalek, and Gonchar -- but let's keep this Dung semi-real here.

Seriously. Why do people feel the need to say things like that and then are shocked when someone respondes with how it actually went down.

The Sens PP looks really good right now, Spezza is a big part of that and for that PP to get going, they need to win draws and yes, with the help of the wingers when it isn;t won cleanly, it's all Spezza.

Id feel better if people just say "he took over in the faceoff circle". At least that you provide evidence too.

Have you ever seen a comeback like that by the sens? it was like Spezza said 'ok I've had enough, I'm ending this Dung' and then just took over. That MAY go down as the single greatest individual performance by a senators player.....EVER

I'm just going to assume it's sarcasim.

He definitely didn't take over the game, but he flashed that silky smooth skill in not only making a deft pass, but getting to the net - which is something he doesn't do enough of - to slamming the puck home.

The most terrifying moment was when Alfie stole that puck and passed it to Spezza, if he curled with it, there was nothing to be done, but he did the right thing and touch-passed it perfectly.

There are still a lot of issues 5 on 5 for Spezza to work on. I don't think any one will really argue that. Potvin (who I loathe) made a great point on one of the plays that happened really quickly, but led to a giveaway by Spezza. He must have seen Cowen moving up the left side, but for some reason decided to pass it to the right, across his body and across traffic for a giveaway AND an odd man rush, because Cowen was trapped. Those are the plays I'd like to see him clean up.

NEELY wrote:I'm just going to assume it's sarcasim.

always was

I just wanted to see some heads explode at my comments

I can make the argument that if Spezza doesn't get the puck and do what he is good at (seeing the ice, making great passes) that it is possible that those goal do not happen. You also can add the faceoffs, as noted. Obviously Spezza scoring his goal was all more on him putting the puck in the net (which a lot of people struggle to do).

Just as much as Spezza is credited with making great passes that (not always) lead to goals, the saem should go for the guys who got him the puck. Fair enough, I will also recognize that too.

It is very reasonable to say that Spezza sees the ice well, and does a lot of things well that allow him to get the puck where it needs to be. If the puck doesn't get to the point, then it can't be shot on net, where it is deflected in for a goal. Maybe someone else CAN do it, but Spezza DID do it.

Enough about what he doesn't do, or will never do, I ask that we just accept him for what he is, since nobody bothered to reply to that post.

SpezDispenser wrote:He definitely didn't take over the game, but he flashed that silky smooth skill in not only making a deft pass, but getting to the net - which is something he doesn't do enough of - to slamming the puck home.

The most terrifying moment was when Alfie stole that puck and passed it to Spezza, if he curled with it, there was nothing to be done, but he did the right thing and touch-passed it perfectly.

There are still a lot of issues 5 on 5 for Spezza to work on. I don't think any one will really argue that. Potvin (who I loathe) made a great point on one of the plays that happened really quickly, but led to a giveaway by Spezza. He must have seen Cowen moving up the left side, but for some reason decided to pass it to the right, across his body and across traffic for a giveaway AND an odd man rush, because Cowen was trapped. Those are the plays I'd like to see him clean up.

Potvin spot on. As usual.

Dash wrote:I can make the argument that if Spezza doesn't get the puck and do what he is good at (seeing the ice, making great passes) that it is possible that those goal do not happen. You also can add the faceoffs, as noted. Obviously Spezza scoring his goal was all more on him putting the puck in the net (which a lot of people struggle to do).

Just as much as Spezza is credited with making great passes that (not always) lead to goals, the saem should go for the guys who got him the puck. Fair enough, I will also recognize that too.

It is very reasonable to say that Spezza sees the ice well, and does a lot of things well that allow him to get the puck where it needs to be. If the puck doesn't get to the point, then it can't be shot on net, where it is deflected in for a goal. Maybe someone else CAN do it, but Spezza DID do it.

Enough about what he doesn't do, or will never do, I ask that we just accept him for what he is, since nobody bothered to reply to that post.

Pretty much. Again, he is what he is, I think we all see it now. He's got a lot of skill and cap absolutely hold the number one C position on a team, but he needs to be insulated - which Bryan Murray knows and has 100% addressed for the future, be it in the form of Silfverberg playing 2nd line C behind him, Z-Bad, Da Costa, or getting big, burly dudes all around him in the form of Michalek, Greening - and soon to be Noesen in the mix as well, Stone.

He can be one of the catalysists for offense for a long, long time - and he seems to want to improve his overall game, something that was done last year, but hasn't really been done this year. That's what drives people crazy, we've seen him do it, but he doesn't do it consistently enough.

Or he is doing what he is told to do, and thus doing what he is best at. As I said, we know what he is best at, and that is producing offence. So he might as well do all he can to do that, and then as a coach you find people that will do the other things.

Dash wrote:Or he is doing what he is told to do, and thus doing what he is best at. As I said, we know what he is best at, and that is producing offence. So he might as well do all he can to do that, and then as a coach you find people that will do the other things.

That's coming in future years, but I really don't think we have the personnel to allow him free reign right now. Admittedly though, Michalek and Greening have looked excellent on either side of him, and that is allowing him some space and offensive freedom.

There is no real plan of defense when you have Michalek, who's a sturdy 225+ barreling towards the net, or Greening who's also in the 220 range coming at you in the corner for a loose puck, it was clear as day that this is what needed to be done: 2 big, tough guys on either side of Spezza's wing so he doesn't have to be the one who 'battles' for the puck in the corner anymore.

How are you gonna stop Michalek and/or Greening? Not many D-men can, so they get covered by the 2 D-men, leaving Spezza some extra time to create plays. It doesn't always work, but I see more chances coming 5 on 5 because of it.

Dash wrote:Why can't we just accept players as they are? How about that? When we fall in love with someone, we do so unconditionally - that is, we accept them as they are, and cannot nor should we expect them to change.

If Wayne Gretzky couldn't (and I say this without really have seen him play) couldn't play defence to save his life, yet is known as arguably the greatest player of all time, should we crucify him or discredit what he has done for the game because of that "flaw"?

If Erik Karlsson only becomes a 70 point offensive player who can only do so because of the risky style he plays and taking chances to make things happen, should we not just be happy with that? That is why there are players in the league that are only good at defence - to be paired with this type of player.

Same thing with forwards (in this case, Spezza). Let him be who he is, and surround him with players that are not him.

And also, let us stop discussing the same thing (Spezza) in 3 different threads.

So for the sake of this thread:

Columbus should have won this game. They had it won until Spezza decided to take over. Sure, Alfredsson got hauled down on a short-handed breakaway (how this was not a penalty shot is beyond me). But Spezza made magic happen and tied the game and then assisted on the tying goal by Michalek.

Jason Spezza will not be Gretzky, Yzerman, or Crosby, or a dozen or so players in the NHL that are better two-way (or even one dimensional players). Just like he will not be a Fisher, Kelly or Staal.

Spezza is Spezza, and you either accept that or don't. But if you are going to carry on day after day about how he did this wrong, or that wrong, then what is the point? It is going to accomplish nothing, except conflict on this forum.

We are trying to build a winning team around Spezza. He has all the ability in the world to be the centre-piece of a winning team. We saw it in the first game where he shrugged off Holmstrom, deked Datsyuk, and set up the Michalek tip. And then split Helm and Abdelkader, drew Kronwall to him, and set up Michalek again.

We are frustrated because the effort is only there a small portion of the time. Even if the percentage was the same but he brought that effort at the beginning of games, we would be much better off in the standings. And the other frustrating thing is that he has dominated once the season is pretty much done for anyway which may this year prevent us from adding a piece to replace Spezza as the focal point of the team (ie. Yakupov).

When you get into a situation where you love your players unconditionally I think you risk having a team that just isn't going anywhere a la Leaf under JFJ with the Muskoka Five.

Karlsson is an extremely young player who still has a lot of physical growing to do, who is being given more responsibility than he probably should get (but we don't have anyone better), who still has a lot to learn about positioning, and who is earning a relatively small salary. His defensive woes are more attributable to problems with ability (although I think it's more to do with the inconsistency that young players have) but almost never have to do with a lack of effort (he busts his *** out there).

Spezza does not have that excuse because he's been in the league for like eight-nine years and we've all seen him be terrific defensively. He was terrific defensively down the stretch last season. So it's not a question of ability, it's a question of effort. And it's not just effort defensively, it's effort all over the ice. Spezza has only really helped us win in the last two games against the two other worst teams in the league. Otherwise his production has come when the Sens are basically out of it (down 4-0 to Philly or in the third period against TO and Detroit). Wayne Gretzky's offence didn't just come when his team had already lost.

And this is coming from someone who has defended the **** out of Spezza for the past 5 years. Even if it's the case that he's injured again (not skating with the team this morning I heard) I'm still frustrated with him (although for a different reason; for being injury-prone). But I mean it's not even a case of us thinking "can Spezza develop into that great all-around player?" We know he can be way better than he is right now. We saw him turn a corner last season. And now we've given him some terrific wingers again (Michalek and Alfredsson, at least some of the time) and maybe the best offensive defenceman in the NHL, and he's back to not giving a ****.

NEELY wrote:That's my problem, it's when people just say things that are not true like "Spezza took over and made magic happen". What magic was that? As far as I know he won 2 key faceoffs which were extremely important, then he got to the front of the net along with Michalek. The PP is 100% running through Karlsson right now and how anyone can say it isn't is beyond me. That's where the offense is being generated from.

Spezza knew exactly where to be along wiht Michalek on that tying goal, so good on him. He banged home the roubound in the ugly area, fantastic, that's where he had to be. He didn't take the game over, it was a PP that was run to perfection against a team waiting for something bad to happen.

That's what happened, it wasn't Spezza saying "I got this boys, lets go".

I think Gonchar had a lot to do with the tying and winning goals on Saturday... did he not?

Michallica wrote:

NEELY wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

Michallica wrote:Listen Neely, I admit that spezza sucks and he's been nothing but a brainfart in his time here in Ottawa post-2007.....but that performance on Saturday night was MVP-like. Literally, spezza stole a victory away from the BJs.

Oh dude. Watch those last 2 minutes again. Spezza didn't put the team on his back and carry them ala Crosby or Iginla or something. He was one of several contributing cogs. That's it.

Not to take anything away from him -- he won big faceoffs, scored a big goal, played a key role out there along with Alfie, Karlsson, Michalek, and Gonchar -- but let's keep this Dung semi-real here.

Seriously. Why do people feel the need to say things like that and then are shocked when someone respondes with how it actually went down.

The Sens PP looks really good right now, Spezza is a big part of that and for that PP to get going, they need to win draws and yes, with the help of the wingers when it isn;t won cleanly, it's all Spezza.

Id feel better if people just say "he took over in the faceoff circle". At least that you provide evidence too.

Have you ever seen a comeback like that by the sens? it was like Spezza said 'ok I've had enough, I'm ending this Dung' and then just took over. That MAY go down as the single greatest individual performance by a senators player.....EVER

Hmmm major hyperbole. Who does that remind me of?

How much cereal can you fit into a hyperbole?

SeawaySensFan wrote:How much cereal can you fit into a hyperbole?

You can fit SO much cereal into a hyperbole that after you eat it you ______.

I don't know what's worse....the lack of recognition for Spezza's Gretzky-esque performance or Neely's spelling skills

NEELY wrote:I'm just going to assume it's sarcasim.

Dude, you're worse than Phillip J. Fry in terms of spelling.

asq2 wrote:

Dash wrote:Why can't we just accept players as they are? How about that? When we fall in love with someone, we do so unconditionally - that is, we accept them as they are, and cannot nor should we expect them to change.

If Wayne Gretzky couldn't (and I say this without really have seen him play) couldn't play defence to save his life, yet is known as arguably the greatest player of all time, should we crucify him or discredit what he has done for the game because of that "flaw"?

If Erik Karlsson only becomes a 70 point offensive player who can only do so because of the risky style he plays and taking chances to make things happen, should we not just be happy with that? That is why there are players in the league that are only good at defence - to be paired with this type of player.

Same thing with forwards (in this case, Spezza). Let him be who he is, and surround him with players that are not him.

And also, let us stop discussing the same thing (Spezza) in 3 different threads.

So for the sake of this thread:

Columbus should have won this game. They had it won until Spezza decided to take over. Sure, Alfredsson got hauled down on a short-handed breakaway (how this was not a penalty shot is beyond me). But Spezza made magic happen and tied the game and then assisted on the tying goal by Michalek.

Jason Spezza will not be Gretzky, Yzerman, or Crosby, or a dozen or so players in the NHL that are better two-way (or even one dimensional players). Just like he will not be a Fisher, Kelly or Staal.

Spezza is Spezza, and you either accept that or don't. But if you are going to carry on day after day about how he did this wrong, or that wrong, then what is the point? It is going to accomplish nothing, except conflict on this forum.

We are trying to build a winning team around Spezza. He has all the ability in the world to be the centre-piece of a winning team. We saw it in the first game where he shrugged off Holmstrom, deked Datsyuk, and set up the Michalek tip. And then split Helm and Abdelkader, drew Kronwall to him, and set up Michalek again.

We are frustrated because the effort is only there a small portion of the time. Even if the percentage was the same but he brought that effort at the beginning of games, we would be much better off in the standings. And the other frustrating thing is that he has dominated once the season is pretty much done for anyway which may this year prevent us from adding a piece to replace Spezza as the focal point of the team (ie. Yakupov).

When you get into a situation where you love your players unconditionally I think you risk having a team that just isn't going anywhere a la Leaf under JFJ with the Muskoka Five.

Karlsson is an extremely young player who still has a lot of physical growing to do, who is being given more responsibility than he probably should get (but we don't have anyone better), who still has a lot to learn about positioning, and who is earning a relatively small salary. His defensive woes are more attributable to problems with ability (although I think it's more to do with the inconsistency that young players have) but almost never have to do with a lack of effort (he busts his *** out there).

Spezza does not have that excuse because he's been in the league for like eight-nine years and we've all seen him be terrific defensively. He was terrific defensively down the stretch last season. So it's not a question of ability, it's a question of effort. And it's not just effort defensively, it's effort all over the ice. Spezza has only really helped us win in the last two games against the two other worst teams in the league. Otherwise his production has come when the Sens are basically out of it (down 4-0 to Philly or in the third period against TO and Detroit). Wayne Gretzky's offence didn't just come when his team had already lost.

And this is coming from someone who has defended the **** out of Spezza for the past 5 years. Even if it's the case that he's injured again (not skating with the team this morning I heard) I'm still frustrated with him (although for a different reason; for being injury-prone). But I mean it's not even a case of us thinking "can Spezza develop into that great all-around player?" We know he can be way better than he is right now. We saw him turn a corner last season. And now we've given him some terrific wingers again (Michalek and Alfredsson, at least some of the time) and maybe the best offensive defenceman in the NHL, and he's back to not giving a ****.

There's the truth, bud. I feel your pain. I remember the moment 3 years ago when I could no longer unconditionally defend Spezza. It's tough to accept.