Game Day - Columbus @ Ottawa, 7:00PM, Saturday, October 22, 2011

NEELY wrote:I'm just going to assume it's sarcasim.

asq2 wrote:

Dash wrote:Why can't we just accept players as they are? How about that? When we fall in love with someone, we do so unconditionally - that is, we accept them as they are, and cannot nor should we expect them to change.

If Wayne Gretzky couldn't (and I say this without really have seen him play) couldn't play defence to save his life, yet is known as arguably the greatest player of all time, should we crucify him or discredit what he has done for the game because of that "flaw"?

If Erik Karlsson only becomes a 70 point offensive player who can only do so because of the risky style he plays and taking chances to make things happen, should we not just be happy with that? That is why there are players in the league that are only good at defence - to be paired with this type of player.

Same thing with forwards (in this case, Spezza). Let him be who he is, and surround him with players that are not him.

And also, let us stop discussing the same thing (Spezza) in 3 different threads.

So for the sake of this thread:

Columbus should have won this game. They had it won until Spezza decided to take over. Sure, Alfredsson got hauled down on a short-handed breakaway (how this was not a penalty shot is beyond me). But Spezza made magic happen and tied the game and then assisted on the tying goal by Michalek.

Jason Spezza will not be Gretzky, Yzerman, or Crosby, or a dozen or so players in the NHL that are better two-way (or even one dimensional players). Just like he will not be a Fisher, Kelly or Staal.

Spezza is Spezza, and you either accept that or don't. But if you are going to carry on day after day about how he did this wrong, or that wrong, then what is the point? It is going to accomplish nothing, except conflict on this forum.

We are trying to build a winning team around Spezza. He has all the ability in the world to be the centre-piece of a winning team. We saw it in the first game where he shrugged off Holmstrom, deked Datsyuk, and set up the Michalek tip. And then split Helm and Abdelkader, drew Kronwall to him, and set up Michalek again.

We are frustrated because the effort is only there a small portion of the time. Even if the percentage was the same but he brought that effort at the beginning of games, we would be much better off in the standings. And the other frustrating thing is that he has dominated once the season is pretty much done for anyway which may this year prevent us from adding a piece to replace Spezza as the focal point of the team (ie. Yakupov).

When you get into a situation where you love your players unconditionally I think you risk having a team that just isn't going anywhere a la Leaf under JFJ with the Muskoka Five.

Karlsson is an extremely young player who still has a lot of physical growing to do, who is being given more responsibility than he probably should get (but we don't have anyone better), who still has a lot to learn about positioning, and who is earning a relatively small salary. His defensive woes are more attributable to problems with ability (although I think it's more to do with the inconsistency that young players have) but almost never have to do with a lack of effort (he busts his *** out there).

Spezza does not have that excuse because he's been in the league for like eight-nine years and we've all seen him be terrific defensively. He was terrific defensively down the stretch last season. So it's not a question of ability, it's a question of effort. And it's not just effort defensively, it's effort all over the ice. Spezza has only really helped us win in the last two games against the two other worst teams in the league. Otherwise his production has come when the Sens are basically out of it (down 4-0 to Philly or in the third period against TO and Detroit). Wayne Gretzky's offence didn't just come when his team had already lost.

And this is coming from someone who has defended the **** out of Spezza for the past 5 years. Even if it's the case that he's injured again (not skating with the team this morning I heard) I'm still frustrated with him (although for a different reason; for being injury-prone). But I mean it's not even a case of us thinking "can Spezza develop into that great all-around player?" We know he can be way better than he is right now. We saw him turn a corner last season. And now we've given him some terrific wingers again (Michalek and Alfredsson, at least some of the time) and maybe the best offensive defenceman in the NHL, and he's back to not giving a ****.

NEELY wrote:That's my problem, it's when people just say things that are not true like "Spezza took over and made magic happen". What magic was that? As far as I know he won 2 key faceoffs which were extremely important, then he got to the front of the net along with Michalek. The PP is 100% running through Karlsson right now and how anyone can say it isn't is beyond me. That's where the offense is being generated from.

Spezza knew exactly where to be along wiht Michalek on that tying goal, so good on him. He banged home the roubound in the ugly area, fantastic, that's where he had to be. He didn't take the game over, it was a PP that was run to perfection against a team waiting for something bad to happen.

That's what happened, it wasn't Spezza saying "I got this boys, lets go".

NEELY wrote:

Michallica wrote:Listen Neely, I admit that spezza sucks and he's been nothing but a brainfart in his time here in Ottawa post-2007.....but that performance on Saturday night was MVP-like. Literally, spezza stole a victory away from the BJs.

That's not even remotly true either, haha.

Oh man, honestly. What happened on Saturday night was a freak thing and what won it for the Sens was a perfectly run PP that all 5 guys on that ice contributed too. Nothing more, nothing less. Spezza took over that game as much and Michalek or Karlsson did.

Dash wrote:Or he is doing what he is told to do, and thus doing what he is best at. As I said, we know what he is best at, and that is producing offence. So he might as well do all he can to do that, and then as a coach you find people that will do the other things.

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:That's my problem, it's when people just say things that are not true like "Spezza took over and made magic happen". What magic was that? As far as I know he won 2 key faceoffs which were extremely important, then he got to the front of the net along with Michalek. The PP is 100% running through Karlsson right now and how anyone can say it isn't is beyond me. That's where the offense is being generated from.

Spezza knew exactly where to be along wiht Michalek on that tying goal, so good on him. He banged home the roubound in the ugly area, fantastic, that's where he had to be. He didn't take the game over, it was a PP that was run to perfection against a team waiting for something bad to happen.

That's what happened, it wasn't Spezza saying "I got this boys, lets go".

You are forgetting the battle behind the goal. A short time after the faceoff he endedup behind the goal digging for the puck. He got possession but was practically mauled by a Bluejacket player. He managed to fight it off (really, would have been a holding penalty if it wasn't under a minute to go in the game) and fired a pass back to the point (I think it was to Alfie, since Karlsson was in the middle and Gonchar close to the half boards). From there it went to Gonchar whose slapshot was blocked, then to Karlsson whose shot was not handled cleanly by Mason. Rebound was gobbled up by Spezza for the tying goal. All the replays miss the earlier part -- they just show Spezza coming back to the crease from behind the goal.

Oh, and it wasn't a PP. It was 4-on-4 with the goalie pulled.