Game Day - Colorado @ Ottawa, 7:30PM, Thursday, October 13, 2011

Face offs are nowhere near as subjective as hits. You can argue that, but you'd be wrong. There is a little subjectivity that *may be* involved when it's not clear; perhaps a tie goes to the home team favorite in some cases, but it would involve a tie -- which is not all that common -- and it would involve a biased official (and we all *know* the bias is toward Leafs, not Sens).

Also, saying "Oh, well, discussion over" when I said "I don't think so" is acting like a sarcastic prick. You don't need to do that. You have plenty of hockey knowledge and experience, and some connections. It's analogous to a player like Spezza having all that talent but not "bringing it" every game. When you resort to childish retorts you are not "bringing it".

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:I don't even think the effort level of a lot of guys was all that bad. Spezza, the guy the team needs to wins games, looks like he was sulking on the ice, losing draw after draw, and just showing no effort at any point in that game.

Everything runs through Spezza in terms of offense. I'm sure the two big excuses coming in the next two weeks are going to be "he's most likely injured" or "he has no one to play with". It's a broken record year after year. Even if they are true, then 1) he's injury prone beyond belief and it's all downhill from here for him or 2) he isn't good enough to make other players better.

Just sick of him performing like he's a Leaf.

He was 12 of 20 for 60%.

I believe Spezza is playing injured. He is missing practices for 'maintenance' days. It's 4 games in? How can you get used to new linemates and a new system if you are not practicing.
In the Minny game he spent a lot of time in the TV time outs.. laying on the ice.. stretching his legs..

Injury is a convenient excuse if he wasn't doing the exact same acts in the last 4 seasons. He wins the fans over by ending the season on a high note and then doesn't give enough of a damn to start the season strong. I explained my disgust in his play in preseason and now it's officially happening in games that count. I'm sick of spezza actually.

If something is bothering him this early in the season that's not good. He didn't train with Greco in the summer, did he?

Personally, I don't think he is injured but may have just tweaked something a bit. Skipping practices is something between him and MacLean. Do we know for sure how many he's missed?

Come to think of it, at the Colorado game during one of the breaks, he was down on the ice fiddling with one of his legs (think left). He undid his skate and adjusted something.

Michallica wrote:Injury is a convenient excuse if he wasn't doing the exact same acts in the last 4 seasons. He wins the fans over by ending the season on a high note and then doesn't give enough of a damn to start the season strong. I explained my disgust in his play in preseason and now it's officially happening in games that count. I'm sick of spezza actually.

Check out NEELY's posts from early on in the season the last couple of seasons. He was quite positive about Spezza and how he was learning to play better defensively. I remember getting into a bit of an argument two years ago when Spezza had a horrible start to the season (stats-wise) and NEELY was defending him saying he was playing a much more complete game and, yes, the points total will suffer but will eventually improve.

NEELY wrote:

Big Ev wrote:Face-offs aren't subjective. Whatever centre's team gains first possession wins the face-off.

That's not true at all.

How is it not? Whatever team gets possession wins the draw. It's pretty simple.

Big Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Big Ev wrote:Face-offs aren't subjective. Whatever centre's team gains first possession wins the face-off.

That's not true at all.

How is it not? Whatever team gets possession wins the draw. It's pretty simple.

No, not at all. Sometimes a center wins a draw but the other team is quicker to recover the puck. A win doesn't mean directly tape-to-tape to the point guy behind him, it just means he got to the puck before the other center did.

The real time statistics such as draws, hits, blocked shots, most of the time are tilted towards the home team. Draws, like hits are subjective. If it's a tie/draw/no one really wins it, it depends on who the statician is, always.

If the guy is over 40 chances are he's a Leaf or Habs fan. Sens get zero bias.

Every team has their own guy. Home ice advantage is always there for the real time stats.

wprager wrote:

Big Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Big Ev wrote:Face-offs aren't subjective. Whatever centre's team gains first possession wins the face-off.

That's not true at all.

How is it not? Whatever team gets possession wins the draw. It's pretty simple.

No, not at all. Sometimes a center wins a draw but the other team is quicker to recover the puck. A win doesn't mean directly tape-to-tape to the point guy behind him, it just means he got to the puck before the other center did.

I can't tell if you are agreeing with Ev or not, cause he said exactly what you said.

Maybe it wasn't clear, but when I said "he got to the puck before the other center did" I did not mean racing into the corner to get possession; I just mean first in the dot. A center wins or loses a draw, but even after a win the other team can gain possession if they move on the puck quicker.