Your own CRAZY projections

NEELY wrote:

Hoags wrote:That sign and trade also cost us Chara.

I always felt Heatley rode off Alfie and Spezza, I never got the feeling he was a driving force on the team, nor the reason we got to the Finals. They gave him an A to shut him up, he never deserved it.

Maybe my recollection is tainted by his trade request but he screwed us over in a way that Hossa never would have IMO. I always liked Hossa and Muckler has the honors of performing the Dung move ever done by the Sens organization (honorable mention to the centurion in the playoffs )

Also totally fabricated. The relationship between players and Muckler was strained after the Hossa deal for sure, but Chara wanted to resign in Ottawa but didn't get an offer. Hossa and Chara are friends but they are not best friends. People would probably be a little shocked if they knew who Chara's best friend is in The NHL.

Pacioretty

and please stick to crazy projections

Big Ev wrote:Haha I'm really sure Alfie was going to be traded for Conroy...you get that from Eklund's rumour generator?

Hossa was screwed, but IIRC it was his greed that caused the trade. And yeah he's been lucky as Diddle to hop onto 3 elite teams to go to the Final. The Hossa curse was real. Doesn't mean he's not a really great player, he just found himself in the right situation for 3 straight seasons. I highly doubt that Pittsburgh, Detroit, and Chicago don't make the Final if they didn't have Hossa.

and yeah the Final team was the best team we ever had. I don't care if it wasn't truly the best team in terms of talent. They got to the Final, they did better than any other Sens team in the past. That's all that matters.

So much flawed logic there it's tough to even comment.

The Pens don't go anywhere near the final without Hossa, he was unreal in the playoffs and would have been The MVP if they actually won the cup. Not too sure where you form your opinions sometimes because a lot of it makes absolutely no sense and is based on nothing except personal bias. I guess Hossa going from Detroit to Chicago made no difference as Detroit bounced Chicago the year before. How you can say having Hossa didn't matter to any one those teams is absolutely mind boggling.

Is predicting the Sens finish last in our Division crazy?

Everyone is biased. You clearly are biased towards Chara and IIRC you went on a boat with him or something. You like him so it is clouding your judgment when stating that he is one of the most dominant players in the last 1/4 century.

Hoags wrote:

NEELY wrote:
Also totally fabricated. The relationship between players and Muckler was strained after the Hossa deal for sure, but Chara wanted to resign in Ottawa but didn't get an offer. Hossa and Chara are friends but they are not best friends. People would probably be a little shocked if they knew who Chara's best friend is in The NHL.

Well like you said it was Karma.

We'd have been better off with Hossa than Heatley in the long run, kind of like we'd have been better off with Chara not Redden.

Big Ev wrote:
and yeah the Final team was the best team we ever had. I don't care if it wasn't truly the best team in terms of talent. They got to the Final, they did better than any other Sens team in the past. That's all that matters.

I never felt it was the greatest team we had, it seemed more like we finally got a break in the post-season.

Anaheim utterly destroyed us in the Final, if we took them to 7 games it'd be different.

The best team The Sens ever had didn't even make it out of the 2nd round. The 05/06 team was the best by a pretty big stretch, followed by the 02/03 team. Those 2 teams dominated games like no other teams in history. Just because the results didn't follow does not mean the finals team was the best. Using that logic is like saying The Oilers teams of 2006 was better than The Oilers of 86 because they got a little further in the playoffs. Exact same logic.

shabbs wrote:Is predicting the Sens finish last in our Division crazy?

No it'd be the truth and that's what happened last year.

Now predicting last in the conference is a little crazy.

Big Ev wrote:Everyone is biased. You clearly are biased towards Chara and IIRC you went on a boat with him or something. You like him so it is clouding your judgment when stating that he is one of the most dominant players in the last 1/4 century.

Not clouding my judgment at all. I know the story first hand, that's why I have my opinion. The results speak for themsevles as well.

Was Chara underwhelming in the playoffs in 06 and 09? Absolutely. Was he to blame? Absolutely not. People forget about his 03 playoffs where he was fantastic. Did he have a lot to prove this year? He did. Did he prove it? Not even a question.

Chara is absolutely one of the most domiante players in the last 25 years. There is no one in The NHL in history that has the combination of size, skill, work ethic, and inteligence he has. If Lindstrom wasn't one of the top 3 D man of all time, Chara would easily be considered the best in the game right now and for the last 5 or 6 years.

Hoags wrote:

shabbs wrote:Is predicting the Sens finish last in our Division crazy?

No it'd be the truth and that's what happened last year.

Now predicting last in the conference is a little crazy.

Just as crazy as predicting The Sens finish 8th.

Hossa was average in the playoffs for both Detroit and Chicago. That's a fact. They had good enough teams without him. Chicago won because of Toews, Kane, Sharp, and their D. Hossa had like 3 goals in 22 games. That's not all that matter, but that's a poor total any way you look at it. He's also been banged up the last 2-3 years. With Detroit, he also didn't do a heck of a lot in their playoffs and he rode the coattails of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Lidstrom.

There's no bias there, don't know why I would be biased in knocking a guy that I actually like. The facts are the facts, he's been average the last 3 years.

DOMINANT. It's not that hard.

Big Ev wrote:Hossa was average in the playoffs for both Detroit and Chicago. That's a fact. They had good enough teams without him. Chicago won because of Toews, Kane, Sharp, and their D. Hossa had like 3 goals in 22 games. That's not all that matter, but that's a poor total any way you look at it. He's also been banged up the last 2-3 years. With Detroit, he also didn't do a heck of a lot in their playoffs and he rode the coattails of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Lidstrom.

There's no bias there, don't know why I would be biased in knocking a guy that I actually like. The facts are the facts, he's been average the last 3 years.

I'm not saying he isn;t decling but saying a team like Pitt would have made the finals without him is doubtful at best. Scored a huge goal for Chicago last year as well (could argue he almost cost them too). Detroit, well they have a proven record without Hossa and were there the year before so I won't argue that.

The point to all this was trading Hossa because he wanted to be paid what he was worth a mistake. Short term it was a good deal but long term not only did it hurt Ottawa's ability to retain players, it hurt them on the ice and in the pocket.

NEELY wrote:

Big Ev wrote:Hossa was average in the playoffs for both Detroit and Chicago. That's a fact. They had good enough teams without him. Chicago won because of Toews, Kane, Sharp, and their D. Hossa had like 3 goals in 22 games. That's not all that matter, but that's a poor total any way you look at it. He's also been banged up the last 2-3 years. With Detroit, he also didn't do a heck of a lot in their playoffs and he rode the coattails of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Lidstrom.

There's no bias there, don't know why I would be biased in knocking a guy that I actually like. The facts are the facts, he's been average the last 3 years.

I'm not saying he isn;t decling but saying a team like Pitt would have made the finals without him is doubtful at best. Scored a huge goal for Chicago last year as well (could argue he almost cost them too). Detroit, well they have a proven record without Hossa and were there the year before so I won't argue that.

The point to all this was trading Hossa because he wanted to be paid what he was worth a mistake. Short term it was a good deal but long term not only did it hurt Ottawa's ability to retain players, it hurt them on the ice and in the pocket.

I agree that looking at it right now it is a big msitake for sure.

If I were still Captain Hindsight I would say that we should never have gotten rid of Chara and Hossa.

BTW who is Chara's best friend? Emery?

Eric Brewer

Ah. They were both with the Prince George Courgars and the Isles before. Makes sense. Developed together.

Big Ev wrote:Ah. They were both with the Prince George Courgars and the Isles before. Makes sense. Developed together.

Yup. Chara was best man at his wedding.

NEELY wrote:

Big Ev wrote:and yeah the Final team was the best team we ever had. I don't care if it wasn't truly the best team in terms of talent. They got to the Final, they did better than any other Sens team in the past. That's all that matters.

So much flawed logic there it's tough to even comment.

Umm, I seem to recall you saying that wins are the only thing that matter for a goalie -- doesn't matter how he wins, what his GAA or SV% are, as long as he gets the Ws. How is it different for a team -- doesn't matter how they got there, so long as they got 12 wins in the first three rounds of the playoffs, they got to the Finals.

Yes, because we all know Jimmy Howard is a better goaltender than Vokoun.