Your own CRAZY projections

But is he considered the best d-man in the game today? I don't think he is. Before this year he always choked when the games really mattered. Hell he wasn't even dominant in this year's Cup run. Seidenberg was better than him all-around, IMO.

but as it was mentioned before, I don't care anymore about letting him walk either, it's in the past.

But just to add, we made the Final without Chara, so that should show you a little something about how much value he has.

Here's a crazy projection: Bryan Murray suddenly begins to speak without a speech impediment.

Big Ev wrote:But is he considered the best d-man in the game today? I don't think he is. Before this year he always choked when the games really mattered. Hell he wasn't even dominant in this year's Cup run. Seidenberg was better than him all-around, IMO.

but as it was mentioned before, I don't care anymore about letting him walk either, it's in the past.

But just to add, we made the Final without Chara, so that should show you a little something about how much value he has.

Well the Chara discussion started about what happened when Muckler let him walk... I told it right from the horses mouth. Chara was considered a choker...? To who? Obviously that isn't the case and I never thought it was. Hard to play 30 plus mins a night in every situation and not be the fall guy when the team he is on doesn't win the cup.

The Sens made the finals, absolutely... were they a better team then the year before? Not a chance. Only a casual fan will look at that Sens team and say "they made the finals, they were better". Fact is that was a perfect storm for The Sens to get to the finals unlike years before where everything that could go wrong, went wrong. The East was weak, The Sens were on a hot streak, and they got to play a Buffalo team who's number they always seemed to have. Questioning his value because they made the finals? Doesn't work that way because that question has been answered. Question should be do The Sens win if they have Chara? Who knows.

You always loved to knock Chara because he hadn't won The Cup, he has now, as a captain and as a 30 min D man. The Sens are a basement team with no one even close to as dominate as Chara on their team or in the organization.

Chara has always been considered a playoff underperfomer. He only got over the hump this year. He was pretty bad against Buffalo, he got outplayed by the Habs this year and in 2009, and he was unimpressive against Carolina in 2010. Sure he plays 30 minutes a night, but that doesn't mean he can't be a fall guy. He is their captain, he is their best d-man and makes the most coin on the team. He needs to be elite.

Anyways, no point in dragging this on.

PS it's "dominant" not "dominate". Don't know why people always mix those up.

Big Ev wrote:Chara has always been considered a playoff underperfomer. He only got over the hump this year. He was pretty bad against Buffalo, he got outplayed by the Habs this year and in 2009, and he was unimpressive against Carolina in 2010. Sure he plays 30 minutes a night, but that doesn't mean he can't be a fall guy. He is their captain, he is their best d-man and makes the most coin on the team. He needs to be elite.

Anyways, no point in dragging this on.

PS it's "dominant" not "dominate". Don't know why people always mix those up.

Now, if *I* had said that, I'd get the grammar anti-nazis after me, saying how I always, correct people and who the hell elected me this-and-that. Enjoy your freedom. This time. Now that you've done it once, the next time -- and it could be months later -- you'll get an earful.

Big Ev wrote:Chara has always been considered a playoff underperfomer. He only got over the hump this year. He was pretty bad against Buffalo, he got outplayed by the Habs this year and in 2009, and he was unimpressive against Carolina in 2010. Sure he plays 30 minutes a night, but that doesn't mean he can't be a fall guy. He is their captain, he is their best d-man and makes the most coin on the team. He needs to be elite.

Anyways, no point in dragging this on.

PS it's "dominant" not "dominate". Don't know why people always mix those up.

Totally agree here. Lets also not forget that Alfie and Hossa were also considered playoff under-performers for years as well.

Not hating on Alfi because I think he is criminally under rated around The NHL but there is another player Muckler got rid of that's been to what? 3 finals and won a cup... just shows you how badly he screwed up what could have become a dynasty or very close to one here in Ottawa.

The return for Hossa was great and one of the reasons we went to the Final. He's lucky to have made 3 Finals on literally the best teams in the league.

Big Ev wrote:The return for Hossa was great

Heatley ?

To this day I wonder what would be if Muckler kept Hossa

Hoags wrote:

Big Ev wrote:The return for Hossa was great

Heatley ?

To this day I wonder what would be if Muckler kept Hossa

Yes because Heatley was so awful for this team.

He only was our most prolific scorer and formed the most dominant line in the NHL at the time.

Put the hate aside for once and admit that he was a great player for this team pre-trade request.

Sure losing Hossa sucked, but if we kept him I honestly don't think this team is any different right now. Hossa is injury prone and like Heatley, he is not the player he once was.

That sign and trade also cost us Chara.

I always felt Heatley rode off Alfie and Spezza, I never got the feeling he was a driving force on the team, nor the reason we got to the Finals. They gave him an A to shut him up, he never deserved it.

Maybe my recollection is tainted by his trade request but he screwed us over in a way that Hossa never would have IMO. I always liked Hossa and Muckler has the honors of performing the Dung move ever done by the Sens organization (honorable mention to the centurion in the playoffs )

Big Ev wrote:The return for Hossa was great and one of the reasons we went to the Final. He's lucky to have made 3 Finals on literally the best teams in the league.

The Sens screwed Hossa and in the end, Heatley screwed The Sens. It was Karma. Fact of the matter is Muckler showed absolutely no loyalty to anyone in Ottawa, no one.... other than Hasek. Hossa isn't lucky to have gotten anywhere, he's been one of the best players in the game for a decade now and he has worked for everything he's got and has a ton of results to show for it. 1 cup, 3 final appearances, 4 conferance finals, and you never hear a bad word about him. Good thing Muckler traded him for someone who had so much baggage he might as well have worked for Air Canada.

You keep bringing up the finals like that was the best team The Sens ever had, it wasn't... not even top 3. Also, The Sens were 1 goal away from going to the finals in 03, pretty much as close to winning the cup as the 07 team.

If Muckler showed any kind of loyalty to Hossa and Chara, The Sens would still be competing for cups. Havlat was a player that had to be dealt but not for scraps. Muckler was also the one that came within seconds on pulling the trigger on an Alfi deal for Conroy.

Hoags wrote:That sign and trade also cost us Chara.

I always felt Heatley rode off Alfie and Spezza, I never got the feeling he was a driving force on the team, nor the reason we got to the Finals. They gave him an A to shut him up, he never deserved it.

Maybe my recollection is tainted by his trade request but he screwed us over in a way that Hossa never would have IMO. I always liked Hossa and Muckler has the honors of performing the Dung move ever done by the Sens organization (honorable mention to the centurion in the playoffs )

Also totally fabricated. The relationship between players and Muckler was strained after the Hossa deal for sure, but Chara wanted to resign in Ottawa but didn't get an offer. Hossa and Chara are friends but they are not best friends. People would probably be a little shocked if they knew who Chara's best friend is in The NHL.

Haha I'm really sure Alfie was going to be traded for Conroy...you get that from Eklund's rumour generator?

Hossa was screwed, but IIRC it was his greed that caused the trade. And yeah he's been lucky as Diddle to hop onto 3 elite teams to go to the Final. The Hossa curse was real. Doesn't mean he's not a really great player, he just found himself in the right situation for 3 straight seasons. I highly doubt that Pittsburgh, Detroit, and Chicago don't make the Final if they didn't have Hossa.

and yeah the Final team was the best team we ever had. I don't care if it wasn't truly the best team in terms of talent. They got to the Final, they did better than any other Sens team in the past. That's all that matters.

NEELY wrote:
Also totally fabricated. The relationship between players and Muckler was strained after the Hossa deal for sure, but Chara wanted to resign in Ottawa but didn't get an offer. Hossa and Chara are friends but they are not best friends. People would probably be a little shocked if they knew who Chara's best friend is in The NHL.

Well like you said it was Karma.

We'd have been better off with Hossa than Heatley in the long run, kind of like we'd have been better off with Chara not Redden.

Big Ev wrote:
and yeah the Final team was the best team we ever had. I don't care if it wasn't truly the best team in terms of talent. They got to the Final, they did better than any other Sens team in the past. That's all that matters.

I never felt it was the greatest team we had, it seemed more like we finally got a break in the post-season.

Anaheim utterly destroyed us in the Final, if we took them to 7 games it'd be different.

NEELY wrote:

Hoags wrote:That sign and trade also cost us Chara.

I always felt Heatley rode off Alfie and Spezza, I never got the feeling he was a driving force on the team, nor the reason we got to the Finals. They gave him an A to shut him up, he never deserved it.

Maybe my recollection is tainted by his trade request but he screwed us over in a way that Hossa never would have IMO. I always liked Hossa and Muckler has the honors of performing the Dung move ever done by the Sens organization (honorable mention to the centurion in the playoffs )

Also totally fabricated. The relationship between players and Muckler was strained after the Hossa deal for sure, but Chara wanted to resign in Ottawa but didn't get an offer. Hossa and Chara are friends but they are not best friends. People would probably be a little shocked if they knew who Chara's best friend is in The NHL.

Pacioretty

and please stick to crazy projections

Big Ev wrote:Haha I'm really sure Alfie was going to be traded for Conroy...you get that from Eklund's rumour generator?

Hossa was screwed, but IIRC it was his greed that caused the trade. And yeah he's been lucky as Diddle to hop onto 3 elite teams to go to the Final. The Hossa curse was real. Doesn't mean he's not a really great player, he just found himself in the right situation for 3 straight seasons. I highly doubt that Pittsburgh, Detroit, and Chicago don't make the Final if they didn't have Hossa.

and yeah the Final team was the best team we ever had. I don't care if it wasn't truly the best team in terms of talent. They got to the Final, they did better than any other Sens team in the past. That's all that matters.

So much flawed logic there it's tough to even comment.

The Pens don't go anywhere near the final without Hossa, he was unreal in the playoffs and would have been The MVP if they actually won the cup. Not too sure where you form your opinions sometimes because a lot of it makes absolutely no sense and is based on nothing except personal bias. I guess Hossa going from Detroit to Chicago made no difference as Detroit bounced Chicago the year before. How you can say having Hossa didn't matter to any one those teams is absolutely mind boggling.