Big Ev wrote: marakh wrote: Big Ev wrote: marakh wrote:Well perhaps you should give an argument on what he has done wrong and what he should have done? Because right now saying going from Stanley CUp finalist to last place etc without anything concrete to back it up, I don't consider as an argument. I have an argument against it though: Take a look at that roster and tell me who played a big part in it that we desperately miss..Redden? Shaeffer? PReissing? Emery? Corvo? Vermette?
I won't talk about the coaches he has hired since that was definitely bad.
But the roster moves? Come on... Name me one top team in the last 6 years that had more than 1 player on their core that were acquired either through trade or free agency. Apart from Anaheim who acquired Niedermayer and Pronger thanks to 2 future franchise players on ELC...
No need to give arguments. It's been debated ad nauseum. Everyone loves Murray now because of his pre-deadline deals. Before then he was 100% going to be replaced.
Not sure about the others, I've been behind Murray since he was hired as GM. I love what he's doing at the draft and with the college kids.
I seriously don't give a crap about trades or free agent signings, not one of them make a real impact on a franchise and they usually are only necessary because of a poor development system and a lack of depth. An organization who drafts and develops players well and doesn't make a single trade during a year is a great organization in my book. WHen's the last time you have seen Ken Holland make a great trade or free agent signing? Was it Rafalski? or 2 months of Hossa? Don't even remember. Yet I hear all the time how he is a great GM.
The teams who have won a cup after the lock out have had either drafted pretty well, or had one or numerous lottery picks. It's not even debatable, it's facts.
Rating a GM's job by analyzing a Leclaire trade or a Kovalev signing is, IMO, irrelevant and a waste of time.
So you base everything on how a GM drafts? A GM is supposed to help your team succeed in the present. The GM should be the one who focuses on the pro-side of things, and the assistants and scouts should be the ones who look towards the future.
How can you say that trades and signings don't make an impact on your team? The Leclaire trade is THE biggest reason why this team is where it is at right now. Him getting injured had a ripple effect through the whole organization. Same with Kovalev. His character/compete level/age was a huge reason why this team has been so streaky for the last couple of years. Saying these things are IRRELEVANT is odd.
Sure you could applaud Murray for his drafting, but his prospects may or may not pan out. Most fans around the league think all their prospects will pan out. He has two players in the current lineup to show for his drafting.
PS For those who rip on Brian Burke, he was left int he same situation as Murray basically...he also has a Cup and has built the core of the current Vancouver Canucks. Plus he got his team a sniper that they desperately needed, and he traded away Kaberle in a steal of a deal (IMO). If we're gonna applaud Murray we gotta applaud Burke as well.
Sorry I'm late but I will respond to this:
1/ First, I do not think trades are useless, I just don't care about trades when you don't have a solid core to begin with + assets to trade to get some good players back. If we had one, just one good asset to trade in 2008 we wouldn't be in this situation. Actually, we had one, but he refused to waive his NTC (which was given by Muckler) otherwise, if the rumours are true, we would be with Jeff Carter as our N2 center right now...
2/ I am not comparing Burke with Murray, actually I like what Burke is doing in Toronto but he still has to find a N1 center which he could have had if he was more patient, and which is also the hardest piece to get. But, they have IMO at least 5 2nd liners: Grabovski, Kulemin, McArthur, Kadri, Bozak, and 1 1st liner. All very young and that makes a deep group, but still missing a huge piece. If he gets Brad Richards though, watch out. I also think Colborne can be a good 2nd line center. He's like the Wiercioch on the forward position. Skilled, tall, but weak.
All in all, I think the two have done a good job so far. Nothing to show for it yet, but solid.
3/ How many years after Burke left Vancouver did they become a cup contending team? Actually, how many teams have more than 2 players playing on their team, drafted since 2008 and not a top 5 pick? Not a lot, that's why I would say it's unfair to say Murray has 2 players to show
Prospects need to pan out, yes, but you can still analyze how good they are at a reference point. Right now Karlsson at 15 and Rundblad at 16 look like steals.
4/ So you're saying it's Bryan Murray's fault if he couldn't predict Leclaire would get a puck in the face sitting on the bench or get hit by FIsher's slapper on the head?
Who exactly that year would have been a better option on the UFA market? It is a legit question, I don't remember.