Last weekend for Murray / Clouston

We'll see...I don't want to put unreasonable expectations on our prospects, but we've all heard some really encouraging things about Silfverberg.

Big Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:Ottawa's 1st round pick this year will be a better prospect than either Colbourne or Kadri. Hell, their 2nd, 1st round pick might be in a year or two as well. Either way, Kadri and Colbourne are average prospects that would probably be better suited playing 2nd line center throguh their careers, then don't have the ability to be number 1's. Toronto will ruin them with stupid expectations.

I have already said that our first round pick will be better than any Leafs forward prospect.

Kadri is a better than average prospect though. If he was a Sens prospect (which he very well could be right now as Ottawa did want him) I have a feeling you wouldn't say that. I don't think we will get a better prospect with our second pick than him.

PS People like to Dung on Kadri but he was almost a PPG player as an AHL rookie. Cut him slack. If he was a Senator people would be raving about that.

Kadri is a little better than average, given. That said, in Ottawa he would be in such a great position to succeed playign behind Spezza vs Toronto I don't think you cna compare the 2. They are expecting Kadri to be a numbe 1 center, probably never going to happen. In Ottawa he would eventually be a dominate number 2 eventually.

Toronto will ruin Kadri.

If people are lookinf for Colbourne's comparable, it's O'Brien. Basically the same age, in the same league, playing in the same role. I would put Silfverberg way ahead of O'Brien.

NEELY wrote:

Big Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:Ottawa's 1st round pick this year will be a better prospect than either Colbourne or Kadri. Hell, their 2nd, 1st round pick might be in a year or two as well. Either way, Kadri and Colbourne are average prospects that would probably be better suited playing 2nd line center throguh their careers, then don't have the ability to be number 1's. Toronto will ruin them with stupid expectations.

I have already said that our first round pick will be better than any Leafs forward prospect.

Kadri is a better than average prospect though. If he was a Sens prospect (which he very well could be right now as Ottawa did want him) I have a feeling you wouldn't say that. I don't think we will get a better prospect with our second pick than him.

PS People like to Dung on Kadri but he was almost a PPG player as an AHL rookie. Cut him slack. If he was a Senator people would be raving about that.

Kadri is a little better than average, given. That said, in Ottawa he would be in such a great position to succeed playign behind Spezza vs Toronto I don't think you cna compare the 2. They are expecting Kadri to be a numbe 1 center, probably never going to happen. In Ottawa he would eventually be a dominate number 2 eventually.

Toronto will ruin Kadri.

Most Leaf fans believe he will be a #2 behind whoever they sign/acquire to be the #1 centre (like Brad Richards). Or most realistic Leaf fans, at least.

NEELY wrote:If people are lookinf for Colbourne's comparable, it's O'Brien. Basically the same age, in the same league, playing in the same role. I would put Silfverberg way ahead of O'Brien.

Don't like the comparison. Colborne has always been the better prospect, was developed in the NCAA only (as opposed to O'Brien who went to the CHL after one NCAA season), and is a much lankier player.

Big Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Big Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:Ottawa's 1st round pick this year will be a better prospect than either Colbourne or Kadri. Hell, their 2nd, 1st round pick might be in a year or two as well. Either way, Kadri and Colbourne are average prospects that would probably be better suited playing 2nd line center throguh their careers, then don't have the ability to be number 1's. Toronto will ruin them with stupid expectations.

I have already said that our first round pick will be better than any Leafs forward prospect.

Kadri is a better than average prospect though. If he was a Sens prospect (which he very well could be right now as Ottawa did want him) I have a feeling you wouldn't say that. I don't think we will get a better prospect with our second pick than him.

PS People like to Dung on Kadri but he was almost a PPG player as an AHL rookie. Cut him slack. If he was a Senator people would be raving about that.

Kadri is a little better than average, given. That said, in Ottawa he would be in such a great position to succeed playign behind Spezza vs Toronto I don't think you cna compare the 2. They are expecting Kadri to be a numbe 1 center, probably never going to happen. In Ottawa he would eventually be a dominate number 2 eventually.

Toronto will ruin Kadri.

Most Leaf fans believe he will be a #2 behind whoever they sign/acquire to be the #1 centre (like Brad Richards). Or most realistic Leaf fans, at least.

They don't have that guy and that number 1 center isn't coming along anytime soon. Kadri is going to be forced into that role and he's going to turn into a player that busted, not because he doesn't have the talent but because they have done an awful job protecting him and will continue to do so.

Everyone sees it coming and everyone knows its coming.

Big Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:If people are lookinf for Colbourne's comparable, it's O'Brien. Basically the same age, in the same league, playing in the same role. I would put Silfverberg way ahead of O'Brien.

Don't like the comparison. Colborne has always been the better prospect, was developed in the NCAA only (as opposed to O'Brien who went to the CHL after one NCAA season), and is a much lankier player.

O'Brien and Colbourne are in the exact same positions looking at both organizations. Both are their AHL teams number 2 centers, around the same age, and are both basically at the same points in their respective careers. That's his comparable in Ottawa right now, that's who he is on par with.

If you want to talk about who has the higher upside it's Colbourne, if you want to talk about who has the bigger downside, that as well is Colbourne. Colbourne isn't a special prospect, he is a guy that they are looking to develop and put into a certain role. Silfverberg absolutely is a guy that should be playing in The NHL next year if he signs a contract and is basically ready for his shot... downside for his is a 3rd line winger, upside is a 1st line winger. Silfverberg is a safer prospect with the same upside.

I understand where you're coming from Big Ev, Kadri is a high profile 2nd line C and Colborne is a 1st round pick with enormous upside. I think they *might* be both higher than any Sens forward prospect, but at the same time, Silfverberg is also playing against men in the SEL and posted 18 goals this year while putting together an already stellar 2-way game (don't let him -18 fool you, apparently he can play both sides of the puck with verve).

My argument is that Silfverberg is still a relatively unknown commodity in NA, but if the reports from people in Sweden are true, he'd likely rank above Colborne.

I didn't want to make it sound like I am not excited about Silfverberg. I am looking forward to what he can bring to this team.

Truthfully though, I hate comparing player x and y from different teams so I don't even know why I bothered. Comparing x and y undrafted prospects is better because we can actually have a chance to acquire either player.

Big Ev wrote:I didn't want to make it sound like I am not excited about Silfverberg. I am looking forward to what he can bring to this team.

Truthfully though, I hate comparing player x and y from different teams so I don't even know why I bothered. Comparing x and y undrafted prospects is better because we can actually have a chance to acquire either player.

Yeah, you can't go into a Leafs vs Sens forward prospect analysis right now. Too many variables...

-is O'Brien for real

-is Colborne ready to jump to the NHL and make an impact

-is Petersson healthy?

-can Silfverberg make an impact

-is Kadri really ready this time

- Stone vs Ross in development

etc. etc. Lots of questions that will be answered now by how hard these guys work and how much patience the franchises have in developing them.

Everyone gone.

So....elephant in the room: what happened to this rumored 'last weekend for clouston/murray'? Last I checked, the weekend is over, and clouston and murray are still at the helm.

Michallica wrote:So....elephant in the room: what happened to this rumored 'last weekend for clouston/murray'? Last I checked, the weekend is over, and clouston and murray are still at the helm.

They've already said Clouston will finish the season and then they'll decide. Doubt he stays. If they fired Clouston during the year the only options would've been for BM to step in behind the bench or have one of the assistants take over. BM doesn't want to coach anymore (too old) and it seems the Sens don't think any of their associate coaches is worthy so does that mean they go as well ?

Murray will stick around til the draft at least. I assume he'll stay on in some capacity, he may even retain GM duties for another year.

If another GM gets hired, do the Murrays stay ? I imagine Tim thought the GM job will be his once BM retires but if an outsider is brought in he may go elsewhere. Kind of like what happened with Chiarelli.

Michallica wrote:So....elephant in the room: what happened to this rumored 'last weekend for clouston/murray'? Last I checked, the weekend is over, and clouston and murray are still at the helm.

We don't want to spoil the fun of Boo Boo, who can't wait for Clouston to be gone. He hates him and doesn't waste an opportunity to say so.

that's fine....but I'm referencing this talk of this past weekend being the last for murray and clouston in their current positions. I don't see pierre as our new gm...do you?

Michallica wrote:that's fine....but I'm referencing this talk of this past weekend being the last for murray and clouston in their current positions. I don't see pierre as our new gm...do you?

I never bought that to begin with. Why would we fire Murray before the season ended?

Big Ev wrote:

NEELY wrote:Ottawa's 1st round pick this year will be a better prospect than either Colbourne or Kadri. Hell, their 2nd, 1st round pick might be in a year or two as well. Either way, Kadri and Colbourne are average prospects that would probably be better suited playing 2nd line center throguh their careers, then don't have the ability to be number 1's. Toronto will ruin them with stupid expectations.

I have already said that our first round pick will be better than any Leafs forward prospect.

Kadri is a better than average prospect though. If he was a Sens prospect (which he very well could be right now as Ottawa did want him) I have a feeling you wouldn't say that. I don't think we will get a better prospect with our second pick than him.

PS People like to Dung on Kadri but he was almost a PPG player as an AHL rookie. Cut him slack. If he was a Senator people would be raving about that.

Butler & Greening were having outstanding seasons in the AHL with one 1st overall in rookie scoring and the other 3rd overall....I believe at one point. Obviously since Feb they have been in Ottawa so that stopped their stats in the AHL.
Yes they are older and more mature.. but Kadri played more games in a tougher hockey environment with the CHL than both Butler & Greening did is US college. So I think it is a wash in experience wise.
We will know in a couple of years when all of them have a little more NHL experience just how they compare to each other. I know I really like Greening's defensive game.. and his 2 wrist shots for goals in Florida were very nice indeed.
Remember these 2 are rookies playing on the #1 line in Ottawa and are doing okay... I don't believe Kadri is playing on the #1 line for Toronto is he?

Hoags wrote:

Michallica wrote:So....elephant in the room: what happened to this rumored 'last weekend for clouston/murray'? Last I checked, the weekend is over, and clouston and murray are still at the helm.

They've already said Clouston will finish the season and then they'll decide. Doubt he stays. If they fired Clouston during the year the only options would've been for BM to step in behind the bench or have one of the assistants take over. BM doesn't want to coach anymore (too old) and it seems the Sens don't think any of their associate coaches is worthy so does that mean they go as well ?

Murray will stick around til the draft at least. I assume he'll stay on in some capacity, he may even retain GM duties for another year.

If another GM gets hired, do the Murrays stay ? I imagine Tim thought the GM job will be his once BM retires but if an outsider is brought in he may go elsewhere. Kind of like what happened with Chiarelli.

Although I don't want Tim Murray as GM -- I would hate to see him leave the organization as he is good at analyzing young talent... and that is what this team needs -- along with the scouts of course.