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spader wrote:Alfie has 1023 points in 1056 games. His PPG is .968. I don't think most people would argue that he's not a PPG player.

All I'm saying is that this seems like splitting hairs to me. 57 points in 60 games is close enough to PPG that to argue that it isn't would be like arguing that 63 points in 60 games isn't PPG, cause it's MTPPG. Splitting hairs.

Exactly. Could not have said it better myself.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:I also don't buy the he's not a point per game player but I won't go there because it will be seen as making excuses. This only applies to Spezza. All other players given a mulligen during Paddock, Hartsburgh saga.

504 pts. in 504 games NOT a point per game. Check.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:I also don't buy the he's not a point per game player but I won't go there because it will be seen as making excuses. This only applies to Spezza. All other players given a mulligen during Paddock, Hartsburgh saga.

504 pts. in 504 games NOT a point per game. Check.

Lets not cloud this debate about what Spezza is and will always be with anything other than the last 3 seasons alone and in isolation statistically and providing other influences and other points.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Spezza's been awesome since he returned. I'm very happy to have him in the 1C position going forward. Anyone saying otherwise loses a lot of credibility in my mind.

He's an important piece going forward for sure. That said, anyone calling him a PPG player obviously hasn't watch The Sens the past, what? 3 years?

504 points in 504 games. He also has some nice point totals in the playoffs.

Considering he was well over a PPG for the first 5 years it's pretty telling he is literally at 1.00PPG for his career. You couldn't have said that before last nights game either.

Spezza hasn't produced at a PPG pace in a long time. He doesn't have to to be effective either, in fact I think he is a better player not putting up the same totals he did when he first broke in.

No on is putting anything on Spezza either, where has anyone said anything negative about the guy other than he hasn't produced at a PPg clip in 3 seasons? That's a fact, sorry if people don't like that.

spader wrote:Alfie has 1023 points in 1056 games. His PPG is .968. I don't think most people would argue that he's not a PPG player.

All I'm saying is that this seems like splitting hairs to me. 57 points in 60 games is close enough to PPG that to argue that it isn't would be like arguing that 63 points in 60 games isn't PPG, cause it's MTPPG. Splitting hairs.

Spezza's best offensive season in the last 3 years he was 3 points under a PPG clip. Times have changed and Spezza will have trouble hitting that mark again. He may do it, he may not but he will struggle, especially during a rebuild.

He's Pierre Turgeon V2.

NEELY wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Spezza's been awesome since he returned. I'm very happy to have him in the 1C position going forward. Anyone saying otherwise loses a lot of credibility in my mind.

He's an important piece going forward for sure. That said, anyone calling him a PPG player obviously hasn't watch The Sens the past, what? 3 years?

504 points in 504 games. He also has some nice point totals in the playoffs.

Considering he was well over a PPG for the first 5 years it's pretty telling he is literally at 1.00PPG for his career. You couldn't have said that before last nights game either.

Spezza hasn't produced at a PPG pace in a long time. He doesn't have to to be effective either, in fact I think he is a better player not putting up the same totals he did when he first broke in.

No on is putting anything on Spezza either, where has anyone said anything negative about the guy other than he hasn't produced at a PPg clip in 3 seasons? That's a fact, sorry if people don't like that.

That's fine if you say that in isolation but to extrapolate that he will never be a point a game and will never be more than what he is based solely on that is ridiculous. Sorry of people don't like that.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:I also don't buy the he's not a point per game player but I won't go there because it will be seen as making excuses. This only applies to Spezza. All other players given a mulligen during Paddock, Hartsburgh saga.

Last season Spezza was .95 points per game in a shortened season. Wow VERY far from a point per game there eh?

So now you have to qualify what a PPG player is? Is he almost a PPG player or is he a PPG player? The last 3 years he hasn't been a PPG player. Fact.

Just like This season and the 08/09 season does not define Phillips' career neither does the past three for Spezza. I prefer to look at his career as a whole and if he only hits 78 points a season I'll be quite pleased. Of course I believe if he's that close it's not even a slight stretch to imagine he can pot those extra 4 points over the course of a season.

No one is trying to define anything expect the people saying "Spezza is a PPG player if it wasn't for everyone else but him".

Spezza is a number 1 center and the best Ottawa has at this point. He's a big piece going forward and he can't be replaced at this point. He hasn't been a PPG player in 3 years and there is nothing wrong with that because he is a better player now.

I feel like I am actually defending the guy because he's become a better hockey player and people just want someone on their team they can call a PPG player. Spezza is a better hockey player when he doesn't sacrifice defense and the team first mentality for his point totals.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Spezza's been awesome since he returned. I'm very happy to have him in the 1C position going forward. Anyone saying otherwise loses a lot of credibility in my mind.

He's an important piece going forward for sure. That said, anyone calling him a PPG player obviously hasn't watch The Sens the past, what? 3 years?

504 points in 504 games. He also has some nice point totals in the playoffs.

Considering he was well over a PPG for the first 5 years it's pretty telling he is literally at 1.00PPG for his career. You couldn't have said that before last nights game either.

Spezza hasn't produced at a PPG pace in a long time. He doesn't have to to be effective either, in fact I think he is a better player not putting up the same totals he did when he first broke in.

No on is putting anything on Spezza either, where has anyone said anything negative about the guy other than he hasn't produced at a PPg clip in 3 seasons? That's a fact, sorry if people don't like that.

That's fine if you say that in isolation but to extrapolate that he will never be a point a game and will never be more than what he is based solely on that is ridiculous. Sorry of people don't like that.

More than what? A PPG player? He's more valuable doing what he has been this season than he would putting up 80-90 points. He's never going to be more than a PPG player? No, he probably won't be at the end of the day and I will take bets he finishes his career probably 50-100 points below that mark. Doesn't mean I don't think more of him as a player at this point and he seems to becoming more of a leader as well. Better than a PPG player IMO, but hey, if you guys think points define the guy then I suggest you just play fantasy hockey.

NEELY wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:I also don't buy the he's not a point per game player but I won't go there because it will be seen as making excuses. This only applies to Spezza. All other players given a mulligen during Paddock, Hartsburgh saga.

Last season Spezza was .95 points per game in a shortened season. Wow VERY far from a point per game there eh?

So now you have to qualify what a PPG player is? Is he almost a PPG player or is he a PPG player? The last 3 years he hasn't been a PPG player. Fact.

Just like This season and the 08/09 season does not define Phillips' career neither does the past three for Spezza. I prefer to look at his career as a whole and if he only hits 78 points a season I'll be quite pleased. Of course I believe if he's that close it's not even a slight stretch to imagine he can pot those extra 4 points over the course of a season.

No one is trying to define anything expect the people saying "Spezza is a PPG player if it wasn't for everyone else but him".

Spezza is a number 1 center and the best Ottawa has at this point. He's a big piece going forward and he can't be replaced at this point. He hasn't been a PPG player in 3 years and there is nothing wrong with that because he is a better player now.

I feel like I am actually defending the guy because he's become a better hockey player and people just want someone on their team they can call a PPG player. Spezza is a better hockey player when he doesn't sacrifice defense and the team first mentality for his point totals.

I can agree with most of that and will say that I see nothing to indicate he can't reach a PPG and be an even better all around player in the process. The 57 points in 60 games to me suggests it's well within his grasp to do so.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:I also don't buy the he's not a point per game player but I won't go there because it will be seen as making excuses. This only applies to Spezza. All other players given a mulligen during Paddock, Hartsburgh saga.

Last season Spezza was .95 points per game in a shortened season. Wow VERY far from a point per game there eh?

So now you have to qualify what a PPG player is? Is he almost a PPG player or is he a PPG player? The last 3 years he hasn't been a PPG player. Fact.

Just like This season and the 08/09 season does not define Phillips' career neither does the past three for Spezza. I prefer to look at his career as a whole and if he only hits 78 points a season I'll be quite pleased. Of course I believe if he's that close it's not even a slight stretch to imagine he can pot those extra 4 points over the course of a season.

If Spezza could put up 78 points a year & play two-way hockey, I think we'd all be pleased. But he hasn't done that yet. Can he? Maybe. We'll see.

spader wrote:Alfie has 1023 points in 1056 games. His PPG is .968. I don't think most people would argue that he's not a PPG player.

All I'm saying is that this seems like splitting hairs to me. 57 points in 60 games is close enough to PPG that to argue that it isn't would be like arguing that 63 points in 60 games isn't PPG, cause it's MTPPG. Splitting hairs.

I would argue Alfie's not a PPG player anymore. Ditto Selanne. Ditto a lot of guys who have moved beyond their prime. They once were, but now are not. Spezza has been a PPG player, and he may be again. But he hasn't been in a while.

dennycrane wrote:Is he top 10 in the league at the position? No. Is he overpaid? Yes. Despite that, is he a valuable piece? IMO, yes.

Yeah, that is pretty much all that needs to be said. And I think he can become an even more valuable piece to us if he can put it all together and stay healthy.

Selanne's lighting it up.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:

NEELY wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:I also don't buy the he's not a point per game player but I won't go there because it will be seen as making excuses. This only applies to Spezza. All other players given a mulligen during Paddock, Hartsburgh saga.

Last season Spezza was .95 points per game in a shortened season. Wow VERY far from a point per game there eh?

So now you have to qualify what a PPG player is? Is he almost a PPG player or is he a PPG player? The last 3 years he hasn't been a PPG player. Fact.

Just like This season and the 08/09 season does not define Phillips' career neither does the past three for Spezza. I prefer to look at his career as a whole and if he only hits 78 points a season I'll be quite pleased. Of course I believe if he's that close it's not even a slight stretch to imagine he can pot those extra 4 points over the course of a season.

No one is trying to define anything expect the people saying "Spezza is a PPG player if it wasn't for everyone else but him".

Spezza is a number 1 center and the best Ottawa has at this point. He's a big piece going forward and he can't be replaced at this point. He hasn't been a PPG player in 3 years and there is nothing wrong with that because he is a better player now.

I feel like I am actually defending the guy because he's become a better hockey player and people just want someone on their team they can call a PPG player. Spezza is a better hockey player when he doesn't sacrifice defense and the team first mentality for his point totals.

I can agree with most of that and will say that I see nothing to indicate he can't reach a PPG and be an even better all around player in the process. The 57 points in 60 games to me suggests it's well within his grasp to do so.

He will probably hover around the mark and even go on stretches where he gets 15 points in 8 or 9 games. He is injured too much to really produce at a consistent rate and he has a new dedication to an all around game including the PK, faceoffs, and defense in general. During a rebuild and with a new defensive system in place, it will hurt his offensive totals as well. Oh well.

I like the Spezza I see and hope he continues playing the way he is. He is doing other things to help the team win other than put up points which was always my biggest beef with him as a player. I don't expect much else from him as a player.

tim1_2 wrote:Selanne's lighting it up.

LOL, I just looked it up and see that he's over a PPG right now. Ah well. You know what I mean. There are lots of guys who put up PPG in their prime, but aren't doing it now. That means they were, by season, former PPG players, but aren't, by season, now. That's all.

F'ing Selanne. Wow.

whats the word on svatos? he used to be alright, what happened?

garblar wrote:whats the word on svatos? he used to be alright, what happened?

He had one great season, IIRC, then kind of fell off the map. Kind of like Weezer, he peaked early then trailed off.

garblar wrote:whats the word on svatos? he used to be alright, what happened?

Pretty sure he had a pretty serious shoulder injury.