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So it's just a miraculous happenstance that Butler started playing better and producing points once he was put on Spezza's line. Also I suppose we should ignore the other 2 goals and the assist that Spezza was involved in?

spader wrote:

NEELY wrote:I don't even know what your point is here. Spezza literally had nothing to do with 3 of Butler's 5 goals to this point.

So he's been involved in 40% of Butler's goals?

You're good at math.

Spezza's been awesome since he returned. I'm very happy to have him in the 1C position going forward. Anyone saying otherwise loses a lot of credibility in my mind.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:So it's just a miraculous happenstance that Butler started playing better and producing points once he was put on Spezza's line. Also I suppose we should ignore the other 2 goals and the assist that Spezza was involved in?

Yes?

I also don't buy the he's not a point per game player but I won't go there because it will be seen as making excuses. This only applies to Spezza. All other players given a mulligen during Paddock, Hartsburgh saga.

Last season Spezza was .95 points per game in a shortened season. Wow VERY far from a point per game there eh?

Cap'n Clutch wrote:I also don't buy the he's not a point per game player but I won't go there because it will be seen as making excuses. This only applies to Spezza. All other players given a mulligen during Paddock, Hartsburgh saga.

We're 3+ years removed from seeing Spezza produce at a PPG+ pace. Not saying it's not in him, but he hasn't yet shown that he can produce at a high rate, play a better 2-way game, and actually stay healthy. That's where we're at right now with Spezza. We've seen him do one, then the other, but not both, certainly not for a long period of time. Love to see it happen, but it hasn't, yet.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:I also don't buy the he's not a point per game player but I won't go there because it will be seen as making excuses. This only applies to Spezza. All other players given a mulligen during Paddock, Hartsburgh saga.

When was the last time Spezza had a PPG season? You can go ahead and say it.

Anyways, this is how things turn into Spezza bashing because everyone here has singled him out. He isn't the only one to get a free pass, as far as I know I'm pretty sure Emery was bought out, Heatley was traded, and the team has been totally turned over.

SpezDispenser wrote:Spezza's been awesome since he returned. I'm very happy to have him in the 1C position going forward. Anyone saying otherwise loses a lot of credibility in my mind.

He's an important piece going forward for sure. That said, anyone calling him a PPG player obviously hasn't watch The Sens the past, what? 3 years?

rooneypoo wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:I also don't buy the he's not a point per game player but I won't go there because it will be seen as making excuses. This only applies to Spezza. All other players given a mulligen during Paddock, Hartsburgh saga.

We're 3+ years removed from seeing Spezza produce at a PPG+ pace. Not saying it's not in him, but he hasn't yet shown that he can produce at a high rate, play a better 2-way game, and actually stay healthy. That's where we're at right now with Spezza. We've seen him do one, then the other, but not both, certainly not for a long period of time. Love to see it happen, but it hasn't, yet.

57 points in 60 games is damn close to a point a game and should not be brushed off. The season before that was the cluster Diddle of coaching issues where not too many players did much. If you're going to give Phillips a mulligan for that season then give Spezza the same treatment. This season isn't over yet and he could still hit a point a game with more games like last night.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:I also don't buy the he's not a point per game player but I won't go there because it will be seen as making excuses. This only applies to Spezza. All other players given a mulligen during Paddock, Hartsburgh saga.

Last season Spezza was .95 points per game in a shortened season. Wow VERY far from a point per game there eh?

So now you have to qualify what a PPG player is? Is he almost a PPG player or is he a PPG player? The last 3 years he hasn't been a PPG player. Fact.

I don't wanna get into more Spezza talk haha, but people are saying he's a PPG player because he literally is. 504 points in 504 games.

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Spezza's been awesome since he returned. I'm very happy to have him in the 1C position going forward. Anyone saying otherwise loses a lot of credibility in my mind.

He's an important piece going forward for sure. That said, anyone calling him a PPG player obviously hasn't watch The Sens the past, what? 3 years?

504 points in 504 games. He also has some nice point totals in the playoffs.

Alfie has 1023 points in 1056 games. His PPG is .968. I don't think most people would argue that he's not a PPG player.

All I'm saying is that this seems like splitting hairs to me. 57 points in 60 games is close enough to PPG that to argue that it isn't would be like arguing that 63 points in 60 games isn't PPG, cause it's MTPPG. Splitting hairs.

Is he top 10 in the league at the position? No. Is he overpaid? Yes. Despite that, is he a valuable piece? IMO, yes.

NEELY wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:I also don't buy the he's not a point per game player but I won't go there because it will be seen as making excuses. This only applies to Spezza. All other players given a mulligen during Paddock, Hartsburgh saga.

Last season Spezza was .95 points per game in a shortened season. Wow VERY far from a point per game there eh?

So now you have to qualify what a PPG player is? Is he almost a PPG player or is he a PPG player? The last 3 years he hasn't been a PPG player. Fact.

Just like This season and the 08/09 season does not define Phillips' career neither does the past three for Spezza. I prefer to look at his career as a whole and if he only hits 78 points a season I'll be quite pleased. Of course I believe if he's that close it's not even a slight stretch to imagine he can pot those extra 4 points over the course of a season.

spader wrote:Alfie has 1023 points in 1056 games. His PPG is .968. I don't think most people would argue that he's not a PPG player.

All I'm saying is that this seems like splitting hairs to me. 57 points in 60 games is close enough to PPG that to argue that it isn't would be like arguing that 63 points in 60 games isn't PPG, cause it's MTPPG. Splitting hairs.

Exactly. Could not have said it better myself.

Cap'n Clutch wrote:I also don't buy the he's not a point per game player but I won't go there because it will be seen as making excuses. This only applies to Spezza. All other players given a mulligen during Paddock, Hartsburgh saga.

504 pts. in 504 games NOT a point per game. Check.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Cap'n Clutch wrote:I also don't buy the he's not a point per game player but I won't go there because it will be seen as making excuses. This only applies to Spezza. All other players given a mulligen during Paddock, Hartsburgh saga.

504 pts. in 504 games NOT a point per game. Check.

Lets not cloud this debate about what Spezza is and will always be with anything other than the last 3 seasons alone and in isolation statistically and providing other influences and other points.