GAME DAY: Montreal Canadiens vs. Ottawa Senators -- Saturday, October 23rd, 2010 -- 7pm ET (CBC)

rooneypoo wrote:

hemlock wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:Yep, game 8 on the season, we've definitely seen enough to know that this team is going to play .300 hockey from here on out.



You guys are hilarious.

No one said that. Certainly not me anyway. All I've said is that there are some disturbing trends going on...

8 games in, and I'm reading everything from 'trade everyone' to 'rebuilt' to 'tank.' Some serious overreaction here. It's embarrassing: the confidence of Sens fans is worse than that of the team on its worst nights.

Yeah, maybe BM and CC became idiots, and an entire playoff roster forgot how to play hockey, overnight -- but I seriously doubt it. Our true colours will show soon enough. We're not world-beaters, for sure, but we're a .600-hockey kind of team, and that fact is going to surface soon enough.

Maybe, maybe not. What seems apparent to me from what I have seen, is that we are already sorely missing a defensive stud back on the blueline, and perhaps some more consistent secondary scoring.

Right now, I am not convinced we are a .500 team, let alone a .600 team. Having said that, you are right, it's early in the season, but making the playoffs would be a much easier task if we were able to bank a few more points early on.

Big Ev wrote:We had a 1st line sniper. His name was Dany Heatley. He's been sorely missed.

Only on the scoresheet. I think the fact that we don't have a sniper waiting in the wings makes it tougher to handle the fact that we don't have a great sniper right now.

Urkie wrote:

wprager wrote:Not out hit last night. Not out shot-blocked, either. They're still doing it in face offs.

Well then the clear answer is that we just don't have the talent anymore.

Years of bad drafting is finally starting to really show and once more holes open up, which they soon will, then we won't have anybody to replace them.

A rebuild is coming whether anyone wants to admit it or not. The fact is that our forward prospect depth is probably the worst in the league.

As critical as I have been of Murray for his trade and coaching hire record, I will say he's drafted extremely well. Granted, I'd love a stud forward prospect to drool over, but I think he's gotten the BPA with his draft picks. Hard to argue that kind of success.

I like our forward depth in terms of Silfverberg, Petersson, and the like. They may not pan out to superstars, but if they project out to being solid top 9's we'll be in good shape. The thing we are missing is a true stud forward prospect.

rooneypoo wrote:

hemlock wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:Yep, game 8 on the season, we've definitely seen enough to know that this team is going to play .300 hockey from here on out.



You guys are hilarious.

No one said that. Certainly not me anyway. All I've said is that there are some disturbing trends going on...

8 games in, and I'm reading everything from 'trade everyone' to 'rebuilt' to 'tank.' Some serious overreaction here. It's embarrassing: the confidence of Sens fans is worse than that of the team on its worst nights.

Yeah, maybe BM and CC became idiots, and an entire playoff roster forgot how to play hockey, overnight -- but I seriously doubt it. Our true colours will show soon enough. We're not world-beaters, for sure, but we're a .600-hockey kind of team, and that fact is going to surface soon enough.

Last year we were a .540 team. Why would we all of a sudden become a .600 team this season? We didn't get much better in the off-season, and I didn't think we got worse (even though our record is suggesting that).

Even in the two games we've won, we haven't looked good at all.

Even if they make the playoffs, then what? They're not going to beat any of the top teams, they just don't have the depth to do it.

Big Ev wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

hemlock wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:Yep, game 8 on the season, we've definitely seen enough to know that this team is going to play .300 hockey from here on out.



You guys are hilarious.

No one said that. Certainly not me anyway. All I've said is that there are some disturbing trends going on...

8 games in, and I'm reading everything from 'trade everyone' to 'rebuilt' to 'tank.' Some serious overreaction here. It's embarrassing: the confidence of Sens fans is worse than that of the team on its worst nights.

Yeah, maybe BM and CC became idiots, and an entire playoff roster forgot how to play hockey, overnight -- but I seriously doubt it. Our true colours will show soon enough. We're not world-beaters, for sure, but we're a .600-hockey kind of team, and that fact is going to surface soon enough.

Last year we were a .540 team. Why would we all of a sudden become a .600 team this season? We didn't get much better in the off-season, and I didn't think we got worse (even though our record is suggesting that).

Even in the two games we've won, we haven't looked good at all.

Even if they make the playoffs, then what? They're not going to beat any of the top teams, they just don't have the depth to do it.

We were only .540 last year?

EDIT: As far as the playoffs go, even 2 games worth of gate receipts goes a long way.

Did *everyone* completely miss my first post of the morning? Your Captain scores a hat-trick to get to 1,000 points -- there *was* celebrating, ont top of a bus ride back to town -- a very, very late night. If the Sens' transportation manager had any common sense they would have kept them in Buffalo overnight and traveled the next day; you don't need a morning skate when you play back-to-back.

Anyhow, they might have another celebration after the next game (Gonchar's 1,000th) but it's not going to be anything like Friday night. I'm OK with them celebrating their Captain's accomplishment even if it means losing the next night. But they have to do better next game.

Oh, and let's not forget we were missing our top-line center, to boot.

44 wins out of 82 = .536

You count OT losses as losses.

Big Ev wrote:We had a 1st line sniper. His name was Dany Heatley. He's been sorely missed.

Remember when Yashin held out for a year? I think that was the 99/00 season. Everybody said we had no chance with Yashin not being there.

Instead, Mike Fisher stepped into the lineup and a young player like Marian Hossa upped his game and the team still had a pretty good season. The point is that good drafting helps fill in holes and when you draft poorly then it makes losing a guy that much more painful.

wprager wrote:Did *everyone* completely miss my first post of the morning? Your Captain scores a hat-trick to get to 1,000 points -- there *was* celebrating, ont top of a bus ride back to town -- a very, very late night. If the Sens' transportation manager had any common sense they would have kept them in Buffalo overnight and traveled the next day; you don't need a morning skate when you play back-to-back.

Anyhow, they might have another celebration after the next game (Gonchar's 1,000th) but it's not going to be anything like Friday night. I'm OK with them celebrating their Captain's accomplishment even if it means losing the next night. But they have to do better next game.

Oh, and let's not forget we were missing our top-line center, to boot.

Are you *really* celebrating blaming a 3-0 loss on practice and a celebration from the previous nights? That's reaching methinks.

These guys are professionals. I don't give two square Dung about what they did last night.

EDIT: Sorry for the wording, I am at work trying to do this and avoid working.

It's a fair point that we're missing our number 1 center, number 1 goalie, and a top 4 d-man. I think we're all just really disappointed that our so called 'depth' hasn't really shown us anything great in this young season. We expected to deal with injuries alot easier than before, but it hasn't come to fruition.

What has happened to the likes of Foligno and Regin so far? 8 games is a very small sample, but both these guys shouldn't be going 8 games combined without scoring. Obviously Kovalev is in this group, but I see him taking alot more shots (and just as luck would have it, he's hitting some crossbars too now).

I don't think a sniper would have helped last night. Those who saw the game could see that we couldn't generate a rush or make crisp passes. Our speed is a key over here as other teams are forechecking the Cuss out of Ottawa

hemlock wrote:As critical as I have been of Murray for his trade and coaching hire record, I will say he's drafted extremely well. Granted, I'd love a stud forward prospect to drool over, but I think he's gotten the BPA with his draft picks. Hard to argue that kind of success.

I like our forward depth in terms of Silfverberg, Petersson, and the like. They may not pan out to superstars, but if they project out to being solid top 9's we'll be in good shape. The thing we are missing is a true stud forward prospect.

Murray has drafted well. I'm not blaming him but the fact is that when you look at our drafts from 2002-2007, just look how bad they really were. The best forwards we drafted over a 6 year period was Nick Foligno and Peter Regin. That's it...

Urkie wrote:

Big Ev wrote:We had a 1st line sniper. His name was Dany Heatley. He's been sorely missed.

Remember when Yashin held out for a year? I think that was the 99/00 season. Everybody said we had no chance with Yashin not being there.

Instead, Mike Fisher stepped into the lineup and a young player like Marian Hossa upped his game and the team still had a pretty good season. The point is that good drafting helps fill in holes and when you draft poorly then it makes losing a guy that much more painful.

We aren't drafting poorly under Murray though. He just hasn't drafted a Hossa type player. Timing accounts for alot. Cowen fell to us, Murray obviously saw something in Karlsson in moving up, and Rundblad, well I guess he felt that Rundy was better than the forward crop that was still out there at the time.

wprager wrote:Did *everyone* completely miss my first post of the morning? Your Captain scores a hat-trick to get to 1,000 points -- there *was* celebrating, ont top of a bus ride back to town -- a very, very late night. If the Sens' transportation manager had any common sense they would have kept them in Buffalo overnight and traveled the next day; you don't need a morning skate when you play back-to-back.

Anyhow, they might have another celebration after the next game (Gonchar's 1,000th) but it's not going to be anything like Friday night. I'm OK with them celebrating their Captain's accomplishment even if it means losing the next night. But they have to do better next game.

Oh, and let's not forget we were missing our top-line center, to boot.

no way. That can't be tolerated at all. If we're talking near the end of the season with a playoff berth secured, its still a fine line. And are you sure they took a bus? Buffalo and Ottawa aren't that close...

I think the whole argument of playing the night before in buffalo and traveling back home isn't a good excuse. Montreal had to go through the exact same scenario last Saturday night yet they still found a way to beat a 'rested' ottawa squad in their own barn. When it's proven that it can be done by other teams, the senators really have no excuse.

Urkie wrote:

hemlock wrote:As critical as I have been of Murray for his trade and coaching hire record, I will say he's drafted extremely well. Granted, I'd love a stud forward prospect to drool over, but I think he's gotten the BPA with his draft picks. Hard to argue that kind of success.

I like our forward depth in terms of Silfverberg, Petersson, and the like. They may not pan out to superstars, but if they project out to being solid top 9's we'll be in good shape. The thing we are missing is a true stud forward prospect.

Murray has drafted well. I'm not blaming him but the fact is that when you look at our drafts from 2002-2007, just look how bad they really were. The best forwards we drafted over a 6 year period was Nick Foligno and Peter Regin. That's it...

No arugments there. The Muckler drafts were downright ugly. Drafting is an area of strength though for the organization.

oh and that makes us 1-4-0 against the northeast, and 1-1-1 against the rest of the league. sooooo that's one positive to look forward to on tuesday and thursday

hemlock wrote:No arugments there. The Muckler drafts were downright ugly. Drafting is an area of strength though for the organization.

It's starting to come around again but that period I brought up is killing us right now and will continue to do so.

I believe it's going to force us to rebuild rather then just re-tool due to the depth issues on forward.

Actually, Montreal/Buffalo is further than Ottawa/Buffalo. There's a good chance the Habs flew back while Ottawa rode the bus.

beerandsens wrote:

first we have quite a few young guys coming up that will want the spots we can open-up for them.
so players i suggest we try and part with at the deadline or at the end of the year if things stay the same: Lee, Foligno, Winchester(not a bad guy but i think Z smith can take his job), Kuba, campoli and shannon.

some of these guys could turn it around during the year but at best they are average.
with kovalev and leclaire gone(frankly i like leclaire and if he stays healthy from now on wouldn't mind offering him a smaller contract) that totals 8 open spots on our line-up.
(and yes i'd opt to offer ruutu a 1 mill contract)
8 spots we could fill thru our youth and FA. that might mean we suck even more the following year or not. but at least we give our youth a shot.

Winchester, Campoli, Lee, Foligno... These guys are young, why get rid of the best young talent we have in order to figure out just how good the less developed youth we have are? Sure, any one of those guys could be a piece in a deal or two, but unloading any and all seems excessive.

because they are average at best. and i feel that if we can get picks or maybe prospects that can turn into better players then we should do it.
campoli is average and we could give his spot to weirchoch or cowen. lee, well nuff said. foligno, i'd rather see bulter, or hoffman next year. toomany 5th d-man and 3rd liners.