Rookie Practice - September 10th

SpezDispenser wrote:

CockRoche wrote:
Now if only you could equate those same philosophies when it comes to sending Lehner back to the Greyhounds. Haha

I guess he could, but he's been under intense tutelage for a long time now - and I think he's a cut above most prospects in maturity and athleticism and composure etc. I wouldn't be as opposed as I once was to sending him back to the Soo, but I'm also eager to see what he can do in the pros.

I think so to. But you can't compare goalies to skaters if that is indeed who you are thinking of (skaters) in your comparision to Lehner.

Goalies need waaaayyyy more time to adjust to the speed of the game. Lehner looked horrible all game against Pittsburgh (veteran rookie team) in the London. Did you watch that game? That is just a small sample size of the problems a goalie faces when jumping to the pro level.

I am leaving huge gaps and pieces out of my post that are in my mind, but I hope it still makes sense.

CockRoche wrote:
Do you think? I really only see a battle for the 13th forward spot.

Yeah worded it badly, I meant I don't really see any roster positions at forward (unless someone is horrible in camp), so I doubt Carker will move to wing and there's Hoffman, Wick and Butler pushing for a spot as well.

If any prospects make it in it'll be on D and it's between Gryba and Cowen.

Hoags wrote:

CockRoche wrote:
Do you think? I really only see a battle for the 13th forward spot.

Yeah worded it badly, I meant I don't really see any roster positions at forward (unless someone is horrible in camp), so I doubt Carker will move to wing.

If any prospects make it in it'll be on D and it's between Gryba and Cowen.

That is my take on it as well. Although Butler may earn a spot and force Ottawa to go with something like this:

FORWARDS
Peter Regin ($1.000m) / Jason Spezza ($7.000m) / Alexei Kovalev ($5.000m)
Milan Michalek ($4.333m) / Mike Fisher ($4.200m) / Daniel Alfredsson ($4.875m)
Jarkko Ruutu ($1.300m) / Chris Kelly ($2.125m) / Chris Neil ($2.000m)
Nick Foligno ($1.200m) / Jesse Winchester ($0.750m) / Zack Smith ($0.583m)
Ryan Shannon ($0.625m) / Bobby Butler ($0.900m)

DEFENSEMEN
Chris Phillips ($3.500m) / Sergei Gonchar ($5.500m)
Filip Kuba ($3.700m) / Erik Karlsson ($1.300m)
Chris Campoli ($1.400m) / Matt Carkner ($0.700m)
Brian Lee ($0.875m)

GOALTENDERS
Pascal Leclaire ($3.800m) /Brian Elliott ($0.850m)

BUYOUTS: Daniel Alfredsson ($0.700m) / Jonathan Cheechoo ($0.666m) / Ray Emery ($0.562m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,445,833; BONUSES: $425,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $379,167

I left Shannon in the calculations because until something happens with him and his one-way contract, he will be on this team. As I have layed it out, it's a full 23 man roster with very little wiggle room in the cap. Having Shannon hurts our flexibility within the cap with injury callups. I think Butler forces his way onto the team though. One thing working against Butler is his salary; that may say AHL in itself.

Dash wrote:I was in touch with Robin about another interview, should get working on that sometime around pre-season.

I have no problems with doing the same format as last time with taking questions and sending them in to him.

Nice!

PKC wrote:
Cowen has absolutely nothing to learn in juniors. His career there should be finished.

He can learn how to be a 2-way D-man, shutdown and offensive. He can prepare himself for the jump to the bigs down there because unfortunately he can't play in Bingo. There's still a long ways to go, but if he were thrown into the NHL I have complete faith that he would survive - just not sure if that's what you want to do to this kind of prospect.

CockRoche wrote:
I think so to. But you can't compare goalies to skaters if that is indeed who you are thinking of (skaters) in your comparision to Lehner.

Goalies need waaaayyyy more time to adjust to the speed of the game. Lehner looked horrible all game against Pittsburgh (veteran rookie team) in the London. Did you watch that game? That is just a small sample size of the problems a goalie faces when jumping to the pro level.

I am leaving huge gaps and pieces out of my post that are in my mind, but I hope it still makes sense.

Why do you say he looked horrible? I thought the goals that were scored on him were all clustercusses in front of him - mainly caused by the D being so young and inexperienced. I'm seriously not sure which of those goals he could have stopped?

Lehner should be treated with kid gloves and not be rushed.

Unless Regin plays badly Butler and Hoffman would have to be injury callups, we're stacked with forwards.

Kovalev being gone after this season will be the first real oppurtunity and I'm sure they'll have chances to show they can take that spot.

SpezDispenser wrote:

CockRoche wrote:
I think so to. But you can't compare goalies to skaters if that is indeed who you are thinking of (skaters) in your comparision to Lehner.

Goalies need waaaayyyy more time to adjust to the speed of the game. Lehner looked horrible all game against Pittsburgh (veteran rookie team) in the London. Did you watch that game? That is just a small sample size of the problems a goalie faces when jumping to the pro level.

I am leaving huge gaps and pieces out of my post that are in my mind, but I hope it still makes sense.

Why do you say he looked horrible? I thought the goals that were scored on him were all clustercusses in front of him - mainly caused by the D being so young and inexperienced. I'm seriously not sure which of those goals he could have stopped?

He created a lot of those clustercusses (I actually typed that), in front of the net, by giving out a simple rebound with opposing forwards incoming or already being around him. His rebound control was some of the worst I've seen that game. That all stems from the older more established Penguin rookies developing the plays quicker, with a faster release and a higher velocity shot. I don't want to imagine what would happen, if he were to play against a full team of AHLers. Lehner couldn't get his timing and it showed as the game wore on. The only thing that saved Lehner that game was his mental strength. If you keep putting him in that situation though, his mental game will break down before his physical abilities adjust to the speed of the game in front of him. Once that happens, you no longer have Robin Lehner - the uber prospect; you will have another Jeff Glass, Trevor Kidd, Al Montoya and/or Marek Schwarz. Those four are all goalies just off the top of my head that were rushed into the pro level and never panned out. Those 4 also come drafted higher and with bigger fanfare than Lehner as well (I believe).

Just my opinion as always.

Yup, best thing for him would be to go back to the OHL. He is not ready for the timing of the big leagues.

Big Ev wrote:Yup, best thing for him would be to go back to the OHL. He is not ready for the timing of the big leagues.

You, me and Hoags. Anyone else want to jump on board and develop our #1 prospect the right way? Haha. Just kidding.

We love you Robin Lehner, we just want what's best. And these 3 keyboard warriors know what they are talking about.

CockRoche wrote:
He created a lot of those clustercusses (I actually typed that), in front of the net, by giving out a simple rebound with opposing forwards incoming or already being around him. His rebound control was some of the worst I've seen that game. That all stems from the older more established Penguin rookies developing the plays quicker, with a faster release and a higher velocity shot. I don't want to imagine what would happen, if he were to play against a full team of AHLers. Lehner couldn't get his timing and it showed as the game wore on. The only thing that saved Lehner that game was his mental strength. If you keep putting him in that situation though, his mental game will break down before his physical abilities adjust to the speed of the game in front of him. Once that happens, you no longer have Robin Lehner - the uber prospect; you will have another Jeff Glass, Trevor Kidd, Al Montoya and/or Marek Schwarz. Those four are all goalies just off the top of my head that were rushed into the pro level and never panned out. Those 4 also come drafted higher and with bigger fanfare than Lehner as well (I believe).

Just my opinion as always.

I can't argue with that, your opinion is strong and well thought out. The only thing I can say is that I felt the crazy things happening in front of him were from a result on these guys crashing the net without any price to pay. Gryba was physical - even though he was on ice for 2 of the goals at least, but Cowen, Schira, Wiercioch etc. just didn't clear the crease - something that needs to happen, if only a bit to slow these big guys down a little. I'm not sure it'll be his mental toughness - although that was an interesting point - that takes a hit as much as his health.

I'm not sure anymore. Thank goodness it's not my decision because now I'm divided a bit. I guess bottom line is that I felt he dominated the OHL as a newcomer to NA and I feel he'd do a comparable job in the AHL (in terms of a .918 sv% or around there) and at least this way he gets accustomed to the pros. I'm not saying he won't struggle, there will be times when he struggles mightily, but in the long run I would say that this will acclimatise him to the pros much quicker than another year in the OHL. Let him take his knocks.

That's just my opinion as well - and I'm REALLY not sure about it.

SpezDispenser wrote:

CockRoche wrote:
He created a lot of those clustercusses (I actually typed that), in front of the net, by giving out a simple rebound with opposing forwards incoming or already being around him. His rebound control was some of the worst I've seen that game. That all stems from the older more established Penguin rookies developing the plays quicker, with a faster release and a higher velocity shot. I don't want to imagine what would happen, if he were to play against a full team of AHLers. Lehner couldn't get his timing and it showed as the game wore on. The only thing that saved Lehner that game was his mental strength. If you keep putting him in that situation though, his mental game will break down before his physical abilities adjust to the speed of the game in front of him. Once that happens, you no longer have Robin Lehner - the uber prospect; you will have another Jeff Glass, Trevor Kidd, Al Montoya and/or Marek Schwarz. Those four are all goalies just off the top of my head that were rushed into the pro level and never panned out. Those 4 also come drafted higher and with bigger fanfare than Lehner as well (I believe).

Just my opinion as always.

I can't argue with that, your opinion is strong and well thought out. The only thing I can say is that I felt the crazy things happening in front of him were from a result on these guys crashing the net without any price to pay. Gryba was physical - even though he was on ice for 2 of the goals at least, but Cowen, Schira, Wiercioch etc. just didn't clear the crease - something that needs to happen, if only a bit to slow these big guys down a little. I'm not sure it'll be his mental toughness - although that was an interesting point - that takes a hit as much as his health.

I'm not sure anymore. Thank goodness it's not my decision because now I'm divided a bit. I guess bottom line is that I felt he dominated the OHL as a newcomer to NA and I feel he'd do a comparable job in the AHL (in terms of a .918 sv% or around there) and at least this way he gets accustomed to the pros. I'm not saying he won't struggle, there will be times when he struggles mightily, but in the long run I would say that this will acclimatise him to the pros much quicker than another year in the OHL. Let him take his knocks.

That's just my opinion as well - and I'm REALLY not sure about it.

To me it just comes down to him being a goalie. They need more time than skaters to adjust to the speed of the game. If they get rushed (not the right word) and overwhelmed by the pros; a snowball effect can happen very quickly and you can lose your talented prospect goalie forever.

It's a tough call for sure, Lehner will make it even harder if he comes in and plays well in training camp. If I was to guess, I would think that they are leaning towards sending him back to Junior as of this moment.

We shall see, I know what I am hoping for for the good of Robin and the Sens.

CockRoche wrote:

Big Ev wrote:Yup, best thing for him would be to go back to the OHL. He is not ready for the timing of the big leagues.

You, me and Hoags. Anyone else want to jump on board and develop our #1 prospect the right way? Haha. Just kidding.

We love you Robin Lehner, we just want what's best. And these 3 keyboard warriors know what they are talking about.

+1

Every once in a while, though, you get a Patrick Roy coming into the league and playing like a seasoned vet. Lehner's got the size and physical maturity (I don't care how *old* you are, that jump to the NHL speed will be felt by anyone), and by all accounts he's got the mental steadiness as well. That's what I used to love about Roy -- he rebounded very well from a bad game (or even a bad period).

You never know ... you know?

Hey, if he starts in the AHL I'm all for it. That means they know he has what it takes. I stand by whatever they decide to do with him.