Ottawa Senators off-season talk

N4L wrote:Yup, I agree. Look how it has worked out for some guys... McKee, Komiserek, Sutton, so on. They all have their money but are totally exposed without an all around D man by their side.

Again, you need a guy like Sutton in the 5, 6 spot but he's replacable, like A Train, McKee, whoever.

Yeah, that seems to be the trend for sure, which is why I can't understand why a team would spend 5 million or whatever on A-Train. I LOVE A-Train, but he provides zero offense, nothing. Even when he plays with Alfie and Spezza and they feed him perfect passes, there's nothing happening offensively.

And then there was McKee who was better than Komisarek could ever hope to be. Where is he now? He's a scratch most nights, bought out by the Blues who got him after he almost single handedly sent Buffalo to the Finals (had he not been injured), making 750K or whatever it is. That's what A-Train will be soon.

As a matter of fact, why not go out and sign McKee to a 1 year, 800K contract and have him as your shot blocker? If he gets hurt, so be it, doesn't matter. But if people want a shot blocker who comes dirt cheap, look no farther than McKee.

Yup, like I said, the defensive D man is the most over rated position in hockey. It's harder to find the perfect 4th liner then a defensive D man.

N4L wrote:Yup, like I said, the defensive D man is the most over rated position in hockey. It's harder to find the perfect 4th liner then a defensive D man.

Uhh.....I don't know about that.

Look at Chicago and Philly, now look at SJ and MTL... both the winning teams have all around D men, both the losing teams have no depth up front. Only reason Ottawa went anywhere this year was because of the constant production they got from their 4th line of Kelly, Neil, and Ruutu.

The 4th unlike the defensive D man is perhaps one of the most important roles in hockey and hardest to play.

Who can seriously call Ruutu-Kelly-Neil a 4th line anymore. These are 3rd liners. The 4th line is Winchester, Smith, whatever.

SpezDispenser wrote:Who can seriously call Ruutu-Kelly-Neil a 4th line anymore. These are 3rd liners. The 4th line is Winchester, Smith, whatever.

In the playoffs, sure. All year long Kelly's line was basically the 4th line. Like I said, you need to have a strong 4th line to win. Who got the cup winning goal last year, pretty sure he had two in the game... oh yeah, Talbot.

The 4th line wins you games, it's called depth. It's a lot harder to find then some poor skating, big body, willing to block a shot.

If Ruutu-Kelly-Neil is the 4th line then we have the most expensive 4th line in the league.

As for needing a 4th line to win, maybe, maybe not. Chicago basically is a 3 line team, and they're doing just fine. They barely usae their 4th line so they don't have a huge impact (Eager's goal was when he was put on the 1st line for some reason).

Big Ev wrote:If Ruutu-Kelly-Neil is the 4th line then we have the most expensive 4th line in the league.

As for needing a 4th line to win, maybe, maybe not. Chicago basically is a 3 line team, and they're doing just fine. They barely usae their 4th line so they don't have a huge impact (Eager's goal was when he was put on the 1st line for some reason).

Totally ignorant statement.

Chicago's 4th line also makes 5 mil so they are right up there with Ottawa, just so you know.

Anyone who says the 4th line doesnt make a difference or isnt a key factor in teams winning is just, like I said, ignorant.

People realize how hard it is to come off the bench after not playing for 10 straight mins and providing energy while keeping emotions in check and being responsible, right?

Eager/Madden/Kopecsky/Burrish is as good a 4th line in the league along with Ottawa's.

N4L wrote:Chicago's 4th line also makes 5 mil so they are right up there with Ottawa, just so you know.

Anyone who says the 4th line doesnt make a difference or isnt a key factor in teams winning is just, like I said, ignorant.

People realize how hard it is to come off the bench after not playing for 10 straight mins and providing energy while keeping emotions in check and being responsible, right?

Eager/Madden/Kopecsky/Burrish is as good a 4th line in the league along with Ottawa's.

Not to mention these guys kill penalties which give the first two lines a break on the PK. That's a huge plus for Chicago

Absolutely, not that Eager or Burrish get on much for the PK anyways, but guys like Madden, Kopecsky, so on do.

Having a 4th line that can come in and play the way do after long breaks inbetween shifts is an absolutely must for any team to win a cup. Look at Talbot last year, The Pens dont win without him. Look at Drapper and Maltby, they have been important guys with The Wings for a long time.

Saying the 4th line doesnt matter just shows a total lack of knowledge for anything hockey. Dismissing the 4th lines all together is even worse. "they are basically a 3 line team". Ya, lets see how they would do with 9 forwards.

This sums up things nicely.

The structure of what it takes to win seems to be consistent throughout. Two solid lines of scoring, a shutdown line to play against opposing top lines, and a line of role players who draw penalties, wear down other teams physically and provide that extra spark through a fight or big hit.

Defensively you need at least two offensive threats from the blueline, two shutdown guys, and two role guys to play minimal, but spirited hockey. In Chicago's case they have 5 well rounded guys and in Philly's case they have Pronger playing 30+ minutes a night.

Timonen is a beast too and can basically do it all. I dont know how he is still so under rated and not talked about with the best in The NHL.

I understand why he never got any kind of recognition in Nashville. But now he's in one of the biggest market's in North America in a hockey mad city.

It's definitely strange to see this guy fly under the radar.

Kovalfie wrote:The structure of what it takes to win seems to be consistent throughout. Two solid lines of scoring, a shutdown line to play against opposing top lines, and a line of role players who draw penalties, wear down other teams physically and provide that extra spark through a fight or big hit.

Defensively you need at least two offensive threats from the blueline, two shutdown guys, and two role guys to play minimal, but spirited hockey. In Chicago's case they have 5 well rounded guys and in Philly's case they have Pronger playing 30+ minutes a night.

Well the Sens have:

- 2 very streaky lines of scoring
- 1 shutdown D-man (Phillips)
- A good line of role players/agitators (Ruutu-Kelly-Neil)
- 1 threat from the blue line (Karlsson)
- 2 role D_men (Carkner & ______) Lee ?

I would also add a goalie capable of stealing a game/holding a lead when your team inevitably decides to play the trap in the 3rd period in a 1-goal playoff game and a coaching staff who doesn't think Spezza vs. Crosby is a good matchup

So we've got some work to do

N4L wrote:

Big Ev wrote:If Ruutu-Kelly-Neil is the 4th line then we have the most expensive 4th line in the league.

As for needing a 4th line to win, maybe, maybe not. Chicago basically is a 3 line team, and they're doing just fine. They barely usae their 4th line so they don't have a huge impact (Eager's goal was when he was put on the 1st line for some reason).

Totally ignorant statement.

How? They play their 4th line for like 5 minutes a game, if you replace Burish and Eager with cheaper, younger 4th liners, I'm sure the Hawks would still be in the Final. Eager only made a difference when he was put with Buff and Toews...other than that, he and Burish give them a few hits and the rest of the game they just yap. This isn't like the Red Wings when they had 4th lines with Maltby, Draper, McCarty, etc.