GAME DAY: Ottawa Senators @ Los Angeles Kings - 10:30pm ET - Thu. Dec. 3rd, 2009 PLUS post game thoughts

People should 100% be getting nervous right now. This is a BIG player on this team doing nothing.

Can't shrug it off forever. That's all I'm gonna say right now.

rooneypoo wrote:

N4L wrote:I have no faith in Spezza, none. This isnt a slight at people who think he can actually turn it around, but to me he is a lost cause. There are no signs, what so ever he has the ability to do it, or anything in his past that says he can handle adversity... in fact, it's the opposite.

I have to... agree.

I think you have to start with a benching for Spezza and go from there. But he's been playing brutal hockey for a month now -- I'm soooo sick of the stick stretched out but the feet not moving thing -- and his production has been way down, not just for this year, but for the better part of 2 seasons.

If EDM would be willing to pay, say, Souray/Visnovsky (salary dump) + Cogliano + Eberle/MPS/1st, I think that's something we definitely should be listening to. Like it or not, Mike Fisher has been the #1 centre on this team since about Feb. 2009 anyway.

I've been pointing to Spezza's production, youth, past, potential, etc. as reasons why we ought to stick behind him for some time. But enough's enough. Right now, he's playing *exactly* like Heatley did last spring -- that is, like a player that wants out. I'm surprised N4L hasn't made that connection already, actually.

I don't think Spezza is on this team come July 1, 2010.

Im starting to really enjoy you, haha. Spezza might not have asked for a trade yet because of not having an NTC to be honest. I wouldnt want him on the team with a NTC, noooo way in hell. That will kill any chance this team has of moving forward.

Ive made the connection but even Spezza isnt that stupid to ask for one without an NTC. I wouldnt even be surprised if Spezza and Heatley talked about it to be honest.

N4L wrote:

111519 wrote:oh now Fisher is our number one center??

everyone wanted to throw him under the bus last year

hello bandwagon, hows the ride?

Not for a second did I EVER want to throw Fisher under the bus and always defended him and his play.

Fisher has been this teams number 1 center since the FFS line was put together. Give him a decent winger in Kovalev and look what he has done. Spezza always had the tallent put on his left and right side, Fisher had what ever was left.

Fisher is a better player then Spezza by a huge margin. Fisher is actually in The Team Canada talk... Spezza isnt only an after thought, it's a joke to even consider it.

That "talk" is driven by the media cheerleaders that assert that Ovechkin and Fisher are in the same class. I agree that Spezza is second banana to Fisher right now but that only speaks to Spezza's underachieving and not so much Fisher's standing as a genuine number one Center.

111519 wrote:so are you saying if you are offered two centres, one that will score you 80 points, and one that will score you 50 points, you as "someone who knows the game" will take the 50 point guy??

are you sure you fully understand games are won/lost by points??

Offer me Dustin Brown or Dany Heatley... I take Dustin Brown in a second and he will NEVER hit the number Heatley did. He will make the team better.

Again, you have a very simple view on things, time to start looking outside that stat sheet.

111519 wrote:spezza will finish the year with more points than either fisher or michalek.

fishers best year 48 points
michaleks best year 66 points

spezza best 90 points and hasn't finished with less than 73 since the lockout.

One year does not make a player either way.

This is not about points. This is about watching the guy play on the ice, shift in and shift out. Spezza is not skating hard, not making good decisions with the puck, not making those sexy, crazy passes he was known for, not CREATING anything out there. The only thing he's been doing better is shooting more -- and even that's not unproblematic, as he's sometimes taking shots from really poor angles or just reaming the puck into the shin pads of opposing players.

Name me one play on the Sens roster who isn't playing harder and creating just as much as Spezza is right now. Again, turn away from the points for a sec. Think about the guys skating around on the ice, shift after shift, game after game. I think if you put Regin in Spezza's spot next game, you wouldn't notice much of a difference -- and that's not a compliment to Regin. It's just the Spezza's not creating, not working, not skating.

I've argued this one over with N4L a lot last year, but he's 100% right on this one. I don't know if that means you trade Spezza -- but I say you certainly have to start by benching him, and you keep all options open at this point.

I'm an Ottawa fan so ofcourse I love the fact Fisher is having a career year.

That being said, Spezza is still my number one centre.

By the way do we really want to get into a spezza/fisher Team Canada contribution debate-you don't want to go there.

I do think Fisher is in that catogory of guys who can do it all. He doesnt have the tallent of Ovechkin or a Datsyuk, but he absolutely can bring more to a team then a Jason Spezza, Anze Kopitar, w/e.

He's not an elite forward but he is a number 1 center.

OK, question for everyone advocating dumping Spezza (and I sympathize):

How many of you actually believe that Mike Fisher is a legitimate number 1 centre going forward? Because we don't have anyone else in the organization remotely capable of fulfilling that role.

I love what MF's been doing this season, but given his history, I can't help but chalk this up as a career year rather than the norm to expect from the guy.

You move Spezza, and suddenly our centre depth is Fisher - Regin - Kelly - Winchester. It wouldn't matter if you had Karlsson, Cowen and Wiercioch all developing into superstars before they're 20 if that's the foundation of the forward corps you're rolling out.

As for those suggesting that we get a number one centre in return, I hardly think Spezza's going to get that at this point. N4L mentioned Phoenix offering Mueller and Turris, but not only can they not take Spezza's salary, but neither of those players has shown they can be half of what Spezza has been. And Penner and Cogliano? Please. Penner's been playing inspired hockey for a couple months for the first time in his career and all of a sudden he's this great player?

Our memory is too short. Spezza was playing inspired, PPG hockey earlier this season and I can't think of a reason for why he can't get back to that level. At any rate, benching him and trying to force him back to that level is the way to go. There's nobody out there on the market that we can sign, and we've been competitive enough without Spezza contributing that we're not going to land a centreman to take his place at the draft.

111519 wrote:I'm an Ottawa fan so ofcourse I love the fact Fisher is having a career year.

That being said, Spezza is still my number one centre.

By the way do we really want to get into a spezza/fisher Team Canada contribution debate-you don't want to go there.

Oh, I defently will and want to... I'll allow you to go first before I actually make you look like a clown more so then you already have.

asq2 wrote:OK, question for everyone advocating dumping Spezza (and I sympathize):

How many of you actually believe that Mike Fisher is a legitimate number 1 centre going forward? Because we don't have anyone else in the organization remotely capable of fulfilling that role.

I love what MF's been doing this season, but given his history, I can't help but chalk this up as a career year rather than the norm tp expect from the guy.

You move Spezza, and suddenly our centre depth is Fisher - Regin - Kelly - Winchester. It doesn't matter whether you have Karlsson, Cowen and Wiercioch all develop into superstars before their 20 if that's the foundation of the forward corps you're rolling out.

As for those suggesting that we get a number one centre in return, I hardly think Spezza's going to get that at this point. N4L mentioned Phoenix offering Mueller and Turris, but not only can they not take Spezza's salary, but neither of those players has shown they can be half of what Spezza hasbeen. And Penner and Cogliano? Please. Penner's been playing inspired hockey for a couple months for the first time in his career and all of a sudden he's this great player?

Our memory is too short. Spezza was playing inspired, PPG hockey earlier this season and I can't think of a reason for why he can't get back to that level. At any rate, benching him and trying to force him back to that level is the way to go. There's nobody out there on the market that we can sign, and we've been competitive enough without Spezza contributing that we're not going to land a centreman to take his place at the draft.

That's one word big guy.

Before the douchebag debacle in the summer I was actually hoping Spezza was going to be dealt in hopes of taking the team in a new direction. I figured one of those big contracts up front had to go to help build a more balanced team. I was hoping Spezza would pick it up this year with added responsibility and an Olympic year. Like many of you, i'm not impressed. I'm nervous about his up coming NTC and think that he should be moved before it kicks in. Even if he turns it around and starts producing I think he should be dealt - all the better too for his trade value. He's a nice piece to have on your team but I don't see him becoming a hard working leader at this point in his career or possibly ever. If his poor play is because of injuries lets cut our losses before that NTC kicks in because if it's true his back problems will hold him back from the player we hoped he would be for years to come.

What The Sens need Spezza doesnt have and what The Sens dont need it exactly what Spezza is.

This team is no different without Spezza, just harder working.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

I don't think Spezza is on this team come July 1, 2010.

I think it would be utterly stupid to risk flushing another season by waiting that long.

I just didn't want to pin myself to a specific date (i.e., 2 weeks from now, at the trade deadline, at the draft table, etc.)

N4L wrote:What The Sens need Spezza doesnt have and what The Sens dont need it exactly what Spezza is.

This team is no different without Spezza, just harder working.

I remember him saying that playing with Michalek made him a better, harder-working player. I actually saw signs of it too. I just think he can't sustain that hardworking game. Sucks for us.

asq2 wrote:

How many of you actually believe that Mike Fisher is a legitimate number 1 centre going forward? Because we don't have anyone else in the organization remotely capable of fulfilling that role.

I love what MF's been doing this season, but given his history, I can't help but chalk this up as a career year rather than the norm to expect from the guy.

You move Spezza, and suddenly our centre depth is Fisher - Regin - Kelly - Winchester. It wouldn't matter if you had Karlsson, Cowen and Wiercioch all developing into superstars before they're 20 if that's the foundation of the forward corps you're rolling out.

As for those suggesting that we get a number one centre in return, I hardly think Spezza's going to get that at this point. N4L mentioned Phoenix offering Mueller and Turris, but not only can they not take Spezza's salary, but neither of those players has shown they can be half of what Spezza has been. And Penner and Cogliano? Please. Penner's been playing inspired hockey for a couple months for the first time in his career and all of a sudden he's this great player?

Our memory is too short. Spezza was playing inspired, PPG hockey earlier this season and I can't think of a reason for why he can't get back to that level. At any rate, benching him and trying to force him back to that level is the way to go. There's nobody out there on the market that we can sign, and we've been competitive enough without Spezza contributing that we're not going to land a centreman to take his place at the draft.

First time Fisher has ever had a decent winger not named Alfi (who he actually produces with) on his wing. Spezza always had the tallent with him, Heatley and Alfi... Fisher might not have his a PPG but he would have come damn close with those two, even then he might hit the 70 point mark this year.

You dont need a guy to produce at a PPG clip in Ottawa right now, you need a guy that wants to do everything he can for the team. Fisher is that guy, Spezza isnt even remotely what The Sens need him to be.

It's not about depth, it's not about stats, it's not even about production (like I have said before) its about effort, leadership, and determination, all of which Spezza provides nothing towards.

rooneypoo wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

I don't think Spezza is on this team come July 1, 2010.

I think it would be utterly stupid to risk flushing another season by waiting that long.

I just didn't want to pin myself to a specific date (i.e., 2 weeks from now, at the trade deadline, at the draft table, etc.)

Exactly. I jsut say he wont be in Ottawa next season... way easier.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

N4L wrote:What The Sens need Spezza doesnt have and what The Sens dont need it exactly what Spezza is.

This team is no different without Spezza, just harder working.

I remember him saying that playing with Michalek made him a better, harder-working player. I actually saw signs of it too. I just think he can't sustain that hardworking game. Sucks for us.

Sooo.... would the ever-tongue-in-cheek SSF be comfortable with Mike Fisher as his #1 centre?

N4L wrote:I have no faith in Spezza, none. This isnt a slight at people who think he can actually turn it around, but to me he is a lost cause. There are no signs, what so ever he has the ability to do it, or anything in his past that says he can handle adversity... in fact, it's the opposite.

And that's your prerogative. It's true, there's a pretty decent chance he doesn't turn it around and recently, has show nothing to give evidence he's even trying to. I just think at some point, his pride has gotta kick in.