GAME DAY: Ottawa Senators @ Los Angeles Kings - 10:30pm ET - Thu. Dec. 3rd, 2009 PLUS post game thoughts

111519 wrote:

N4L wrote:

111519 wrote:Spezza has 433 in 428 games

Does any of the other names being tossed around have anywhere near those numbers

People implying we wouldn't get great value back for him even now, are full of crap. Number one centres don't come around often.

Doesnt matter. Sakic was a PPG player but I wouldnt trade anything of value for him. What about Paul Karyia? He's still playing.

Point being is Spezza isnt getting better, his development stopped at 22, 23 year old and it's been downhill since then or since he signed his deal.

Spezza is worth about a 2nd line center and maybe a decent prospect, not much else.

Honestly I don't know what to say to this. If you honestly believe you would only get a second line centre and a prospect for Spezza I have to walk away. You are talking about a player who averages 90 points a year. Its easy to talk about dumping your number one centre until you try to replace him.....

We arnt talking about dumping Fisher are we?

The days of Spezza being anything more then AT BEST a PPG guy is over, he isnt. Im trying to be really polite here but if you think Spezza is worth anything other then perhaps a top 6 forward and a good (not great) prospect, then you need to check into reality, buddy.

If St Louis offered up McDonald and Eller tomorrow for Spezza, I would jump on it, same if Edmonton offered up Cogliano and MPS, or Columbus offered up Brassard and Filatov.

If you think Spezza can land a player like Michalek, noooooooooo chance.

According to the Team 1200 "Round Table" Ovechkin is the most unique player in the league. The only players who are even close, according to them, are Iginla and Fisher.

That says it all.

Speaking of centers though, how good does Fisher look out there still? Kovalev is a big part of that though, Fisher has a lot of room to opperate and is defently the best Winger (besides Alfi) that Fisher has ever played with.

SeawaySensFan wrote:According to the Team 1200 "Round Table" Ovechkin is the most unique player in the league. The only players who are even close, according to them, are Iginla and Fisher.

That says it all.

I agree with that. There are not a lot of players who can do what those 3 do, I would say Datsyuk as well though, maybe Perry too.

N4L wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:According to the Team 1200 "Round Table" Ovechkin is the most unique player in the league. The only players who are even close, according to them, are Iginla and Fisher.

That says it all.

I agree with that. There are not a lot of players who can do what those 3 do, I would say Datsyuk as well though, maybe Perry too.

Absolutely. Ovechkin, Iginla, Datsyuk, Perry, Fisher... a rare breed of Superstar.

N4L wrote:I have no faith in Spezza, none. This isnt a slight at people who think he can actually turn it around, but to me he is a lost cause. There are no signs, what so ever he has the ability to do it, or anything in his past that says he can handle adversity... in fact, it's the opposite.

I have to... agree.

I think you have to start with a benching for Spezza and go from there. But he's been playing brutal hockey for a month now -- I'm soooo sick of the stick stretched out but the feet not moving thing -- and his production has been way down, not just for this year, but for the better part of 2 seasons.

If EDM would be willing to pay, say, Souray/Visnovsky (salary dump) + Cogliano + Eberle/MPS/1st, I think that's something we definitely should be listening to. Like it or not, Mike Fisher has been the #1 centre on this team since about Feb. 2009 anyway.

I've been pointing to Spezza's production, youth, past, potential, etc. as reasons why we ought to stick behind him for some time. But enough's enough. Right now, he's playing *exactly* like Heatley did last spring -- that is, like a player that wants out. I'm surprised N4L hasn't made that connection already, actually.

I don't think Spezza is on this team come July 1, 2010.

spezza will finish the year with more points than either fisher or michalek.

fishers best year 48 points
michaleks best year 66 points

spezza best 90 points and hasn't finished with less than 73 since the lockout.

One year does not make a player either way.

rooneypoo wrote:

I don't think Spezza is on this team come July 1, 2010.

I think it would be utterly stupid to risk flushing another season by waiting that long.

SeawaySensFan wrote:According to the Team 1200 "Round Table" Ovechkin is the most unique player in the league. The only players who are even close, according to them, are Iginla and Fisher.

That says it all.

You can say Dustin Brown too, that guy is about as tough as they come and is one of the hardest guys in the league to play against.

Fisher is The Ottawa Senators number 1 center. You dont need to put up 80 points to be a stud. If he can get 50-60 points (25-30 goals), that's better then Spezza getting 82. People who understand the game and know what they are talking about will absolutely agree that statement. The people who disagree with say 82-60 = 22 points, that's not better.

oh now Fisher is our number one center??

everyone wanted to throw him under the bus last year

hello bandwagon, hows the ride?

111519 wrote:oh now Fisher is our number one center??

everyone wanted to throw him under the bus last year

hello bandwagon, hows the ride?

Not for a second did I EVER want to throw Fisher under the bus and always defended him and his play.

Fisher has been this teams number 1 center since the FFS line was put together. Give him a decent winger in Kovalev and look what he has done. Spezza always had the tallent put on his left and right side, Fisher had what ever was left.

Fisher is a better player then Spezza by a huge margin. Fisher is actually in The Team Canada talk... Spezza isnt only an after thought, it's a joke to even consider it.

I'm not impressed either - and I'm a big supporter. I'm actually quite nervous to be honest.

And Alfie looks like Dung too right now. It's...hard to win when two of your better players look like they do right now. At least Alfie's had success this year...Spezza has been crappy since game 10.

I'm nervous. Count me in as someone who would like to see him sat down for two weeks to try to heal his injuries (if there are....there must be?). And yes, if it doesn't turn around soon, we're gonna need to look at options.

Screw Edmonton and their junk, I've wanted Bogosian and Little long enough, it's time to really take a long, hard look at what we can do. However, at this time, I'm not leaning towards that.

so are you saying if you are offered two centres, one that will score you 80 points, and one that will score you 50 points, you as "someone who knows the game" will take the 50 point guy??

are you sure you fully understand games are won/lost by points??

People should 100% be getting nervous right now. This is a BIG player on this team doing nothing.

Can't shrug it off forever. That's all I'm gonna say right now.

rooneypoo wrote:

N4L wrote:I have no faith in Spezza, none. This isnt a slight at people who think he can actually turn it around, but to me he is a lost cause. There are no signs, what so ever he has the ability to do it, or anything in his past that says he can handle adversity... in fact, it's the opposite.

I have to... agree.

I think you have to start with a benching for Spezza and go from there. But he's been playing brutal hockey for a month now -- I'm soooo sick of the stick stretched out but the feet not moving thing -- and his production has been way down, not just for this year, but for the better part of 2 seasons.

If EDM would be willing to pay, say, Souray/Visnovsky (salary dump) + Cogliano + Eberle/MPS/1st, I think that's something we definitely should be listening to. Like it or not, Mike Fisher has been the #1 centre on this team since about Feb. 2009 anyway.

I've been pointing to Spezza's production, youth, past, potential, etc. as reasons why we ought to stick behind him for some time. But enough's enough. Right now, he's playing *exactly* like Heatley did last spring -- that is, like a player that wants out. I'm surprised N4L hasn't made that connection already, actually.

I don't think Spezza is on this team come July 1, 2010.

Im starting to really enjoy you, haha. Spezza might not have asked for a trade yet because of not having an NTC to be honest. I wouldnt want him on the team with a NTC, noooo way in hell. That will kill any chance this team has of moving forward.

Ive made the connection but even Spezza isnt that stupid to ask for one without an NTC. I wouldnt even be surprised if Spezza and Heatley talked about it to be honest.

N4L wrote:

111519 wrote:oh now Fisher is our number one center??

everyone wanted to throw him under the bus last year

hello bandwagon, hows the ride?

Not for a second did I EVER want to throw Fisher under the bus and always defended him and his play.

Fisher has been this teams number 1 center since the FFS line was put together. Give him a decent winger in Kovalev and look what he has done. Spezza always had the tallent put on his left and right side, Fisher had what ever was left.

Fisher is a better player then Spezza by a huge margin. Fisher is actually in The Team Canada talk... Spezza isnt only an after thought, it's a joke to even consider it.

That "talk" is driven by the media cheerleaders that assert that Ovechkin and Fisher are in the same class. I agree that Spezza is second banana to Fisher right now but that only speaks to Spezza's underachieving and not so much Fisher's standing as a genuine number one Center.