Murray likes the Sens post-Heatley trade

Sens19 wrote:

shabbs wrote:Not sure what you mean, I have not seen a lot of anti-Kadri on here. I like him and I like the game he plays.

No no don't get me wrong, I didn't mean here. It's just among many Sens fans I've spoken to and it makes me wonder whether it was just that Burke drafted him instead of Murray

Meh. I think a lot of it has to do with how TSN portrayed the meeting with Burke/Murray. If Cowen had not been available, we may have picked Kadri, who knows. The Cowen pick was a no brainer for the Sens, we needed him in our pipe line.

personaly i see kardi as a bottom top 6. you know a guy that will never get past the 20 goal(maybe 25 sometimes). that's not saying he's bad but he was picked what 7th over all? i think there were way better options out there. so i don't have that much love for him. when we need a top 6, we need a guy that will net 25 every year. like a michalek. and that's what i think we should be hunting for.

Flo The Action wrote:personaly i see kardi as a bottom top 6. you know a guy that will never get past the 20 goal(maybe 25 sometimes). that's not saying he's bad but he was picked what 7th over all? i think there were way better options out there. so i don't have that much love for him. when we need a top 6, we need a guy that will net 25 every year. like a michalek. and that's what i think we should be hunting for.

IMO, Kadri is a Scott Gomez in the making. Good skater, decent vision, but a guy that isnt really going to make a team all that much better.

WE shouldn't really care anyway. Cowen was a no-brainer top 5 pick without the injury question. Now that we know he is performing right where he left, it's evident we got a steal. Whatever player Kadri will become, there will be no regret whatsoever for Sens fans.

asq2 wrote:**** SHARP! WE NEED ****ING DEFENCEMEN!

Also, what happens if we acquire a guy like Sharp (which we won't) and then Leclaire goes down (*knock on wood*) which frankly I can't say isn't particularly likely. Are we going to compete with Mike Brodeur and our **** blue-line?

Keep Elliott around.

If you stick your fingers in your ears and go la la la when they say Mike, then unplug your ears when they say Brodeur you could pretend he's the other Brodeur. That might help?

marakh wrote:WE shouldn't really care anyway. Cowen was a no-brainer top 5 pick without the injury question. Now that we know he is performing right where he left, it's evident we got a steal. Whatever player Kadri will become, there will be no regret whatsoever for Sens fans.

You got that right man. I wonder if Atlanta, LA, Phoenix, Toronto and Dallas are cursing for not picking Cowen when they had a chance? Heh heh.

Toronto isn't cursing. Jurke out-GMd Murray to get No-Fly Khadri.

Just my opinion, but I'd take a rock solid top 1 or 2 dman on my team any time before a top 6 forward. The phrase "defense wins championships" isn't outdated yet. Even a top goalie like Luongo would admit that he could only do so much in Florida, but now with a good d-corps in Vancouver the team has for the last couple of years been a top tier team.

Give me a stud big defenseman before a 30 goal guy any day.

Devo wrote:Just my opinion, but I'd take a rock solid top 1 or 2 dman on my team any time before a top 6 forward. The phrase "defense wins championships" isn't outdated yet. Even a top goalie like Luongo would admit that he could only do so much in Florida, but now with a good d-corps in Vancouver the team has for the last couple of years been a top tier team.

Give me a stud big defenseman before a 30 goal guy any day.

Yeah for sure. We need a minute eating, 25 minute a game, PP, PK, ES D-man who, preferable is 6'4", 225, but is also fast.

With the lack of movement thus far - combined with the fact that few teams are realistically 'out' of the playoff race now, I can't see where we'll ever get that from on the trade market. Better to see if we can get one in FA or just be content to farm Cowen, Karlsson, Wiercioch.

But yeah, if the situation arises where we can nab someone really good, then go for it.

SpezDispenser wrote:Yeah for sure. We need a minute eating, 25 minute a game, PP, PK, ES D-man who, preferable is 6'4", 225, but is also fast.

I'm curious - how many defencemen in the league fulfill those requirements?

Pronger, Chara - too slow
Lidstrom, Doughty, Bogosian, Keith, Niedermayer et. most - too short
Bouwmeester, Hedman - too light.

Shea Weber's the only defenceman I can think of that might fulfill all of these requirements, except he may not be depending on your definition of fast, and he's not averaging 25 minutes a game.

Also, for those wondering why Carolina sucks, look no further than the fact that Joe Corvo is second only to Pronger in Defenceman time on ice per game.

Devo wrote:Just my opinion, but I'd take a rock solid top 1 or 2 dman on my team any time before a top 6 forward. The phrase "defense wins championships" isn't outdated yet. Even a top goalie like Luongo would admit that he could only do so much in Florida, but now with a good d-corps in Vancouver the team has for the last couple of years been a top tier team.

Give me a stud big defenseman before a 30 goal guy any day.

I agree with you mostly, except that Nashville's been a goalie and defenceman factory and hasn't really gone anywhere.

asq2 wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Yeah for sure. We need a minute eating, 25 minute a game, PP, PK, ES D-man who, preferable is 6'4", 225, but is also fast.

I'm curious - how many defencemen in the league fulfill those requirements?

Pronger, Chara - too slow
Lidstrom, Doughty, Bogosian, Keith, Niedermayer et. most - too short
Bouwmeester, Hedman - too light.

Shea Weber's the only defenceman I can think of that might fulfill all of these requirements, except he may not be depending on your definition of fast, and he's not averaging 25 minutes a game.

Also, for those wondering why Carolina sucks, look no further than the fact that Joe Corvo is second only to Pronger in Defenceman time on ice per game.

That was the optimum requirements, I'll take another Kuba (but can he also be a little stronger on the puck please?) and be happy about it.

asq2 wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Yeah for sure. We need a minute eating, 25 minute a game, PP, PK, ES D-man who, preferable is 6'4", 225, but is also fast.

I'm curious - how many defencemen in the league fulfill those requirements?

Pronger, Chara - too slow
Lidstrom, Doughty, Bogosian, Keith, Niedermayer et. most - too short
Bouwmeester, Hedman - too light.

Shea Weber's the only defenceman I can think of that might fulfill all of these requirements, except he may not be depending on your definition of fast, and he's not averaging 25 minutes a game.

Also, for those wondering why Carolina sucks, look no further than the fact that Joe Corvo is second only to Pronger in Defenceman time on ice per game.

Burns meets those requirements but I see none of the teams wanting to trade anyone off that list.

I don't really think we need another PK defenceman. Phillips and Volchenkov are the mainstays on the first unit, and Kuba and Carkner are a very adequate second PK pairing.

Really, you only need a defenceman to play five-on0-five and QB the powerplay.

Let's say you trade Campoli (who is cheaper and younger and a RFA rather than UFA) and a later pick for him, you'd have:

Phillips - Volchenkov
Kuba - Zidlicky
Picard - Carkner
*Lee

It's not overwhelming, but you're not getting a serious defenceman unless you give up really serious assets, and I'm not sure we want to do that.

Burns is too light, and I'm not sure he's averaging 25 minutes.

Also, he's been struggling mightily (well, Minnesota has anyway, so it's reflected in his -11) for the past while.

Definitely hasn't re-reached his '07-'08 form.

asq2 wrote:Burns is too light, and I'm not sure he's averaging 25 minutes.

Also, he's been struggling mightily (well, Minnesota has anyway, so it's reflected in his -11) for the past while.

Definitely hasn't re-reached his '07-'08 form.

Yeah, I'm no longer enamored with him. He can still play - and well - but he's no longer franchise right now. He's got a long way to go to get back there IMO. Too many knocks on the noggin.

asq2 wrote:

Devo wrote:Just my opinion, but I'd take a rock solid top 1 or 2 dman on my team any time before a top 6 forward. The phrase "defense wins championships" isn't outdated yet. Even a top goalie like Luongo would admit that he could only do so much in Florida, but now with a good d-corps in Vancouver the team has for the last couple of years been a top tier team.

Give me a stud big defenseman before a 30 goal guy any day.

I agree with you mostly, except that Nashville's been a goalie and defenceman factory and hasn't really gone anywhere.

True, but take the Defense out of the picture and replace it with a bunch of highly skilled forwards and are the goalies performing as well?

Or take the good goalies out of the picture and replace them with so so goalies and are we questioning their defense?

I guess my point was that I'd take goalies and demen before a forward any day. I'd take another top d-man this year if there was a 1/2 like Cowen available before a potential 2nd line forward.

You can always trade a stud d-man for a proven forward in the NHL, but I think everyone has seen how hard it is to get that stud dman to anchor your blue line.

shabbs wrote:

marakh wrote:WE shouldn't really care anyway. Cowen was a no-brainer top 5 pick without the injury question. Now that we know he is performing right where he left, it's evident we got a steal. Whatever player Kadri will become, there will be no regret whatsoever for Sens fans.

You got that right man. I wonder if Atlanta, LA, Phoenix, Toronto and Dallas are cursing for not picking Cowen when they had a chance? Heh heh.

You are aware that Evander Kane is on pace for almost 30 goals this season and has had stints on Atlanta's top line? They're ecstatic.

LA got a really nice player in Schenn and their blue-line is so ridiculously stacked (Doughty is on pace for almost 70 points at the moment, then toss in JJ, Hickey, Teubert etc.), I think they're fine with their choice. Can't go wrong with a second line tandem of Brown - Schenn after sending out Kopitar (yes, I am jealous).

The Phoenix scout I talked to back at the Sweden - Carleton friendly seemed very happy with the OEL selection (granted, you can't tell how much he's been tracking Cowen's progression). Ekman-Larsson has the potential to end up as the best defenceman in the draft, so I think that was a fine pick for them.

Toronto: well...I think they were right to pick a forward over a mostly defensive defenceman given they had just taken Schenn, were confident in signing Komisarek most likely and didn't have any top of the line forwards in their organization. Looking back, I suppose you could argue that Cowen is a superior calibre of prospect (which he is), but I think Leaf fans are more likely only concerned with when Kadri can start setting up Kessel.

Dallas picking Glennie over Cowen, MPS and Kulikov was what was bizarre for me.

/not understanding a joke