GAME DAY: Boston Bruins @ Ottawa Senators - 7:00pm ET - Sat. Oct. 24th, 2009; and post game debate

Gohan wrote:

N4L wrote:Kovalev is producing and was front and center for that 3rd Ottawa goal. The guys around Kovalev are producing.

Shannon doesnt work anywhere.

Front and center on a flukky goal? *sarcastic hand claps*...... Diddle that. Kovalev is the worst player on this team, night-in, night out. He keeps trying to slow down the game, but thats not the way the new NHL works. You either get up to speed or go sit in the press box. THAT is how it works.

I'm sick of him.

He is what he is. I get frustrated watching the guy play too but I know exactly what you pay for. He's playing ok and once he get rolling a bit I think he will be better.

Oh, and Ryan Shannon is the only player on The Sens without a point... ya, he should really be in there. He's tied with Lecliare and Elliott in scoring. How is that possible with the amount of PP time the guy gets?

N4L wrote:Oh, and Ryan Shannon is the only player on The Sens without a point... ya, he should really be in there. He's tied with Lecliare and Elliott in scoring. How is that possible with the amount of PP time the guy gets?

He's game has changed a ton this year. He's not driving the puck to the net, he's not getting into the high concentration areas, he's timid with the puck on his stick and he's refusing to go in deep on the forecheck -- all things associated with concussion-related issues.

Sucks to say it, but he might be washed up if he can't overcome the stigmas associated with his concussion issues. He's just too reticent to do the grinder things that the other 17 players on the ice are doing.

Nope, he's not. Sucks for him but a 600 000 dollar contract is pretty sweet and he earned it last year. He will be a career AHLer or European player because of his size and concussion issues.

He will be a 100K player in The AHL and with that big contract he got, for the most part he is set for life.

He is not an NHL player at this point and defently not a 4th line grinder.

People need to just chill in here and relax for a second.

I don't know where these illusions of the Sens being an elite calibre team are coming from, but you guys need to have some perspective.

This is a team that was roundly picked by pundits to finish in the bottom 1/3 of the standings.

You have at least six new faces featuring on the team in roles that are crucial to the makeup of a hockey club and for some reason, you guys expect the entire team to be firing on all cylinders.

To be honest, with the effort I've seen so far, I couldn't be happier with the result. The Senators are going to continue playing this style it seems and that's a great thing: because it works.

You have to remember that we have two (sometimes, three) new top six forwards playing on the club. We have two new defensemen on the backend and a new starting goaltender.

Despite the fact that these guys are professional hockey players, it sometimes takes time for them to adjust to new surroundings, coaches, ice surfaces, cities, etc...

You also have to remember that this team has been playing without it's top defenseman and doing admirably to fill his shoes. Once he comes back, you have that 22-24 minute presence on the backend who gives you a different look at even strength, on the powerplay and on the penalty kill.

Just give the team some time guys. They are headed in a direction most analysts didn't think they were.

Wait until this team starts gelling, stops flipping players in and out of the roster and starts getting into a groove where they play more than 3 games in 16 days.

Those are all fair points, but there is no way a team should give up a 2 goal lead with less then 2 mins to go and that stems from crappy decisions by the coach from keeping Dono out to putting Cheechoo out there with 2 mins to go.

Those things cant happen. Not having a productive 4th line, IMO, has cost this team 2 games in a row. It's an important factor to have the ability to roll 4 lines and that's why The Sens were firing before.

N4L wrote:Those are all fair points, but there is no way a team should give up a 2 goal lead with less then 2 mins to go and that stems from crappy decisions by the coach from keeping Dono out to putting Cheechoo out there with 2 mins to go.

Those things cant happen. Not having a productive 4th line, IMO, has cost this team 2 games in a row. It's an important factor to have the ability to roll 4 lines and that's why The Sens were firing before.

I agree that the Sens should have won that game last night. But to blame it on one guy (Cheechoo) when there were four other players on the ice is a bit much.

You can't look at it that way. The whole team gave that game away because it was evident they stopped playing once they went up 3-1. Mike Fisher not getting the puck out, Cheechoo losing his position on the ice, unmarked men sneaking in from the circle, those are all things that cost the team. Also, I would have liked to have seen Elliott slide over straight up from side to side on the net, I know the slap pass was right on, but he should have been reading that play from the get go, why he arrived to that post almost flat on his belly why the shot fluttered over his catching glove doesn't make sense to me.

But oh well. Those are the breaks. You win some games you shouldn't, you lose some games you shouldn't, you win some games you should and you lose some games you should. Eventually, over 82 games, it all evens out. Hell, just this week it's evened out. We didn't deserve a point against Nashville but we deserved two against Boston -- those are the breaks.

I'm sure Clouston (who's still a young coach breaking into the league, he hasn't even coached a full season yet) will learn from this and adjust his play calling.

I personally think putting Cheechoo out in the last two minutes was a great way to inject some confidence into a guy who needs just a bit to get going on the scoresheet. It could have worked but it didn't. What can you do?

I dont blame and havnt blammed Cheechoo for the most part because that's on Clouston. Again, if you want to give guys confidence you gotta put them in situations where they have the ability to succeed.

Getting Cheechoo some PP time would be a good start, the guy is starting to fire and he has been the last few games. Those will start to go in for the guy and will start to go in for Spezza as well.

Clouston is a young coach but its becoming pretty clear he is starting to play favorites right now with Shannon, that's where my beef is right now.

N4L wrote:I dont blame and havnt blammed Cheechoo for the most part because that's on Clouston. Again, if you want to give guys confidence you gotta put them in situations where they have the ability to succeed.

Getting Cheechoo some PP time would be a good start, the guy is starting to fire and he has been the last few games. Those will start to go in for the guy and will start to go in for Spezza as well.

Clouston is a young coach but its becoming pretty clear he is starting to play favorites right now with Shannon, that's where my beef is right now.

Shannon is a nice choice to run with Michalek and Spezza and keep up. He played well, probably well enough to deserve to play more, but I think Donovan's drawing back in one way or another, so I wouldn't worry.

Clouston should have called a timeout after the Bs scored their 2nd goal and rested Michalek and Alfie, then Fisher and Regin or even Shannon, but he didn't, a bounce didn't go our way and we all feel like complete Dung today.

Clouston will learn as much as we do as the season goes on and adjust. He's the one that had the Sens gunning all game long and not losing their focus, he'll be the one who makes the right choices because (thank goodness) he's the first coach who knows what's what since Murray.

I still feel really badly about that game last night today, but at least they competed hard enough to feel they should have won. It's just basically frustration at this point.

PS Go Elliott - hell of a game.

PKC wrote:
I don't know where these illusions of the Sens being an elite calibre team are coming from, but you guys need to have some perspective.

That's pretty much the realization I have come down to over the last few days. Recall that, while we were leading the division I was the one cautiously saying that they really haven't beaten anyone they weren't expected to beat. They gave away a point to the only team in the league without a win. The only game where they performed like an elite team was lighting up the Bolts. Other than that, they've really been closer to a .500 team than a top-10 team.

Hopefully they find whatever it is they are looking for (perhaps Kuba coming back; perhaps Kovalev playing better; perhaps Spezza finding the net a few times; definitely an improved PP). If they don't they may find themselves out of a playoff spot in a few weeks.

Boston *will* get better. Same with Toronto -- not that they'll climb back to respectability but they won't be giving away as many points. Buffalo is once again the little train that could -- they're finding ways to win. Montreal has quietly built up a 3 game winning streak, beating the Rangers in the process (and I'm pretty sure it wasn't Valiquette). And they can make it 4 in a row against the Isles tonight.

All of a sudden we are just 2 points out of 4th in the division. We've already slipped to 6th in the conference, just 2 points ahead of the Habs who are on the outside looking in.

Did I say in a few weeks? If they don't wake up it'll be a lot sooner than that!

They'll face TAmpa and Florida, and the Habs will face Pitts and Chicago.
Habs have played 1 more game also, and their secondary scoring is not what I would call firing from all cylinders.
Too early in the season to make any sort of analysis on division standings IMO. Just look at the standings in the west...

No, Neely's right. It wasn't Cheechoo's fault that Clouston put him out there. He is not a defensive specialist or two-way player. Perhaps Clouston wants everyone to be better defensively, and felt that a 2-goal lead with under 2 minutes to go was a safe time to ice the full Spezza line. Hopefully he'll learn that in this league it takes a heck of a lot less time that 1:38 to score a couple of goals. Also, wiht under 2 minutes and a face off in your zone you should have two centers out there. Have Michalek or Cheechoo ever played center? I don't think so. He should have had Spezza out with Kelly, then Fisher with Regin. You don't need to roll four lines with under 2 minutes left, protecting a lead.

Those who blame it on Fisher not clearing the puck, and further adding that this is two games in a row he cost us a game? Wow. In the Thursday game he lost the face off then was tripped trying to clear the puck. He still managed to whack the puck but the point guy just happened to be right there. You can't very easily aim where the puck will go when you are diving at it and hitting it out of mid-air. Then last night, he was on a backhander and in a bad position. Sure, I would have loved it if it had gone sailing high like Alfie's missed open net Thursday night, but it didn't.

But I'd like a couple of questions answered about that whole play:

1. Why didn't one of the forwards give A-Train their stick or at least try to kick the stick over to him?
2. Why did A-Train suddenly decide to go into the corner to pick his stick up before the puck cleared out zone?

Also, this is probably the 15th time in two games where I've seen both Phillips and Volchenkov on the same side of the ice. Usually it's Phillips running over to (for whatever reason) help out A-Train by doubling up on *one* winger, and twice it cost us. Last night when A-Train went to grab his stick Phillips should have crossed back over to the other side. As it was, A-Train almost made it back over to intercept the slap-pass or block the shot. Phillips could have made it over there much, much quicker (he didn't have to bend over and pick up a stick first).

Anyhow, Philchenkov have been playing lights out, so I don't want to slam them too much, but I've been noticing a little bit too much of this crossing over going on.

i love my habs but my habs will not keep this pace--i want gainey out--this lineup is not stanley cup material

marakh wrote:They'll face TAmpa and Florida, and the Habs will face Pitts and Chicago.
Habs have played 1 more game also, and their secondary scoring is not what I would call firing from all cylinders.
Too early in the season to make any sort of analysis on division standings IMO. Just look at the standings in the west...

I think Tampa will be a little bit better ready to face us. Vinnie finally got his first goal and they will no-doubt remember the score from the last Ottawa game. Florida? Well, remember what happened against Nashville.

I agree that it's too early yet, but it's scary how quickly we've gone from being the 2nd seed and talking about how wonderful it would be to sit atop the Conference if only for a day, to being just 2 points up on the 9th team.

Oh, and, don't look now, but Tampa and Atlanta are only 3 points behind, and the Thrashers have a game in hand.

sidstu wrote:i love my habs but my habs will not keep this pace--i want gainey out--this lineup is not stanley cup material

Cammy had a hat trick last night. Gomez and Gionta are always dangerous. The defense will get a little better once they adjust to the new guy. Markov will be back, eventually. If they continue to get decent goaltending they'll continue winning half their games, maybe get a few loser points. They could very well push for a playoff spot when Markov returns.

wprager wrote:No, Neely's right. It wasn't Cheechoo's fault that Clouston put him out there. He is not a defensive specialist or two-way player. Perhaps Clouston wants everyone to be better defensively, and felt that a 2-goal lead with under 2 minutes to go was a safe time to ice the full Spezza line. Hopefully he'll learn that in this league it takes a heck of a lot less time that 1:38 to score a couple of goals. Also, wiht under 2 minutes and a face off in your zone you should have two centers out there. Have Michalek or Cheechoo ever played center? I don't think so. He should have had Spezza out with Kelly, then Fisher with Regin. You don't need to roll four lines with under 2 minutes left, protecting a lead.

Those who blame it on Fisher not clearing the puck, and further adding that this is two games in a row he cost us a game? Wow. In the Thursday game he lost the face off then was tripped trying to clear the puck. He still managed to whack the puck but the point guy just happened to be right there. You can't very easily aim where the puck will go when you are diving at it and hitting it out of mid-air. Then last night, he was on a backhander and in a bad position. Sure, I would have loved it if it had gone sailing high like Alfie's missed open net Thursday night, but it didn't.

But I'd like a couple of questions answered about that whole play:

1. Why didn't one of the forwards give A-Train their stick or at least try to kick the stick over to him?
2. Why did A-Train suddenly decide to go into the corner to pick his stick up before the puck cleared out zone?

Also, this is probably the 15th time in two games where I've seen both Phillips and Volchenkov on the same side of the ice. Usually it's Phillips running over to (for whatever reason) help out A-Train by doubling up on *one* winger, and twice it cost us. Last night when A-Train went to grab his stick Phillips should have crossed back over to the other side. As it was, A-Train almost made it back over to intercept the slap-pass or block the shot. Phillips could have made it over there much, much quicker (he didn't have to bend over and pick up a stick first).

Anyhow, Philchenkov have been playing lights out, so I don't want to slam them too much, but I've been noticing a little bit too much of this crossing over going on.

I'm glad I'm not the only noticing the momentary lapses in judgment lately by 'Philchenkov.' I will cut them some slack as their overall playlately, as you pointed out Rager, has been lights out, but this crossing over risk-taking should be reeled in by Clouston and his staff...quickly IMHO or it will come back, again, to haunt the team on the scoreboard.

How the hell did I get a reputation of 6???! When SpezD is at 3 -- and I believe all those are from the one time I clicked "Thank You" just to try it out.

OK, someone's playing games with me. It's now up to 7. I can't live up to that much hype. There is a little green bar next to my previous post -- I take it that indicates that someone +'d it. Why, exactly? Who? Do I have a stalker?