POLL: How many goals would it take for you to be happy with Heatley this year

rooneypoo wrote:Here's my idea for a poll: how many polls and threads have we wasted on Dany Heatley?

With that kind of attitude we'll never call you MR.

Honestly, I don't really care about the goal total. Dany's problem (and frankly Spezza's, as much as we have been deifying him recently) is that his contribution to the team hasn't really gone beyond the numbers.

I find it funny that he complains that he's not killing penalties, because I'm also pissed off that he isn't. Of course, the difference is that I feel he should earn his PKing, and he feels it should be handed to him.

With Hossa's arrival, Hank Z's numbers dropped from 43 goals and 92 points to 31 and 72, but you won't see many Wings fans cursing his name because he provides so much to the team in other ways.

Kovalev's addition gives us the best non-CASH forward we've had since Havlat played like 5 games for us in 2005-2006 (sorry Cory S). Coupled with the emergence of Foligno and his chemistry with Fisher and Shannon, and the potential addition of Regin to at least partially fill Vermette's shoes, this could be one of the deepest forward corps offensively that we've had since that season.

Granted, the defence we have coming into this season isn't close to Chara, good Redden, good Meszaros, Phillips, Volchenkov and Pothier, but nevertheless we should have quite a bit of scoring support for Spezza and Heatley.

So, for me to be happy, I would want to see 19 and 15 follow more in the foot-steps of 11 - namely, for them to come into camp in good shape, be physical, pay attention to all areas of the ice, not give up on plays, and keep their feet moving.

What I don't want to see is Heatley just lurching around the ice with his stick pointed at the rafters, or Spezza losing the puck trying to deke into the blue-line and then being the last Senator back on defence, even if Heatley swats his way to 50 and Spezza converts Alfredsson's tireless work ethic into 60 assists for himself.

All good points there Asq.

I was wondering the other day if Alfie has taken Spezza aside and started teaching him exactly what he needs to do to become a Selke-type center. I would if I were Alfie. Why not? Now Spezza's here for good and he's very willing to learn.

Or maybe he has been and it'll slowly start to show.

But yes, if Heatley were to become a great 2-way player, he could score 30 goals and be of the same value to us. Problem is, he's really slow and he's gonna get slower when his surgically repaired knee starts to disintegrate, so the possibility of him being an attacking PKer are limited IMO.

little bits were coming through last year i mean no he wasnt another alfie but he had cut down his give aways by about 30% and increased take aways from opposing teams by 15%

Hockeyhero22000 wrote:little bits were coming through last year i mean no he wasnt another alfie but he had cut down his give aways by about 30% and increased take aways from opposing teams by 15%

I really think Alfie's spending a lot of time 1 on 1 with him, teaching him. That's cool... cool)

SpezDispenser wrote:All good points there Asq.

I was wondering the other day if Alfie has taken Spezza aside and started teaching him exactly what he needs to do to become a Selke-type center. I would if I were Alfie. Why not? Now Spezza's here for good and he's very willing to learn.

A player like Spezza needs to be an Art Ross type center. Let Mike Fisher elevate his game back up to Selke status.

SeawaySensFan wrote:
A player like Spezza needs to be an Art Ross type center. Let Mike Fisher elevate his game back up to Selke status.

Also true, but if you elevate Spezza's defensive play and have him in the running for the Art Ross, look the diddle out.

Heatley is what he is-a sniper. He will never be a two way player, its all about the goals for him. Honestly, he is 6'3 and never even attempts a bodycheck.

Now Spezza is a different story. Even though he is very offensive you could see him developing into a two way player. His talent is seeing the ice and making great passes-this could translate into seeing the ice and breaking up passes. I don't think he is ever going to be a great checker, but he is way more willing than heatley. Spezza should be the next Captain when Alfie retires, and if he knows this honour is coming his way, he may put more work into becoming a complete player. We must remember Spezza's age and maturity level versus Alfie right now.

I am so happy we are having this problem with heatley and not Spezza. Spezza would be very hard to replace.

i also think that being left off the list for olympic camp will open his eyes he seems to be saying that it was an eye opener because he has the offensive talent to be there but they arent sure about his defensive game plus he had a long talk with Yzerman when he was called i hope that helps

SpezDispenser wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:
A player like Spezza needs to be an Art Ross type center. Let Mike Fisher elevate his game back up to Selke status.

Also true, but if you elevate Spezza's defensive play and have him in the running for the Art Ross, look the diddle out.

we could finally get excited about deep playoff runs if this happened.

SpezDispenser wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:
A player like Spezza needs to be an Art Ross type center. Let Mike Fisher elevate his game back up to Selke status.

Also true, but if you elevate Spezza's defensive play and have him in the running for the Art Ross, look the diddle out.

All I know is he's gone from being in Jumbo Joe's shadow to surpassing him in my view in terms of all-around value. That's pretty huge.

SpezDispenser wrote:All good points there Asq.

I was wondering the other day if Alfie has taken Spezza aside and started teaching him exactly what he needs to do to become a Selke-type center. I would if I were Alfie. Why not? Now Spezza's here for good and he's very willing to learn.

Or maybe he has been and it'll slowly start to show.

But yes, if Heatley were to become a great 2-way player, he could score 30 goals and be of the same value to us. Problem is, he's really slow and he's gonna get slower when his surgically repaired knee starts to disintegrate, so the possibility of him being an attacking PKer are limited IMO.

Spezza (or heck, even Alfredsson) isn't exactly Pavel Bure either. But, for all three, their top-end speed is very to somewhat respectable (admittedly Heatley's is probably the worst). The difference is that Alfredsson never gives up and keeps his feet moving on the ice at all times. Heatley and Spezza have terrible acceleration, and, coupled with their lack of determination, are really limited in their abilities to be all-around stars. But, they've both made plays that to me have proven that they can become that kind of player.

Part of the problem is fitness, but I think most of it is mental. They've become so successful financially and statistically based on their offensive talents that there hasn't really been a need to work hard on the ice. A guy like Alfredsson, on the other hand, taken in the 6th round had to bust his arse to get to where he is today.

So, for me to be happy, I need to see a shift in their mentality as hockey players away from this obsession with numbers, towards the idea of working for everything, such as keeping their feet moving to overcome their poor acceleration. Problem is, Heatley thus far has done the exact opposite (complain about numbers like ice-time, expect things like PK time to be handed to him, basically be incredibly childish). From Spezza's interviews, he seems to have swallowed his lumps and he sounds like he's trying to adjust. But, as Neely says, "talk is cheap."

There are a lot of good things from last season for Spezza that make me optimistic for improvement.
A) There seems to be a maturation: his interviews, his marriage, his involvement at rookie camp, fighting Phaneuf after he ran at Heatley etc.
B) He played all 82 games for the first time in his career.
C) Diminishment in give-aways and improvement in take-aways
D) He remains a committed face-off guy

There are problems, though, like the fact that he had a career high in shots, but his shooting percentage went down quite a bit. To me, that suggests that he's been settling for shots with a low chance of scoring rather than trying to create a better scoring opportunity himself.

There was a player on another team last year that only scored 33 goals durring the regular season but, did other things well. and committed himself to the team effort.

Sidney Crosby-and it seemed to work out pretty well for him.

asq2 wrote:There are a lot of good things from last season for Spezza that make me optimistic for improvement.
A) There seems to be a maturation: his interviews, his marriage, his involvement at rookie camp, fighting Phaneuf after he ran at Heatley etc.
B) He played all 82 games for the first time in his career.
C) Diminishment in give-aways and improvement in take-aways
D) He remains a committed face-off guy

There are problems, though, like the fact that he had a career high in shots, but his shooting percentage went down quite a bit. To me, that suggests that he's been settling for shots with a low chance of scoring rather than trying to create a better scoring opportunity himself.

hmmm well only one concern is not too bad considering the roller coaster ride we have been on with Spezza. Spezza has the moves to dangle and create a better scoring opportunity for say Alfie or Kovy, so he best be doing it, we are not paying him to be a 40 goal scorer, 30 is good, but his assists/play making is where we need him most.

I'd be happy with Spezza getting 30 goals and 60 assisits year in and out, means 60 other goals are being scored by someone.......

Does Kovalev take some of the need for being 'fancy' out of Spezza's game? You don't find many players as fancy as Kovalev likes to be. Maybe now Spezza can totally focus on the other parts of his game, knowing that Kovalev will be the one dangling.

Plus...Spezza doens't have a choice. Clouston is tough as nails on guys who don't listen to him.