The Heatley Saga: What's in store in the next 30 days?

SpezDispenser wrote:

cas wrote:
Absolutely it is, but what makes us (with Heatley) so much worse than the Bostons, Phillys, Pittsburghs, and Washingtons of the league? Say what you want about there being no pressure on us last season, but I watched every one of those games. They were a different team under Clouston and they were more than capable of competing with the best teams in the league.

...and this coming year, they're a better team :n:

I actually don't disagree with you about most of this. I think if the right offer came along, Murray wouldn't hesitate, but that probably goes without saying.

As for the teams you listen, Chara, Timonnen, Gonchar and Green are what makes them so much better IMO.

Chara and Timonen, Gonchar, kinda... Green? We'll see how much longer he produces at a PPG pace if he ever wants to evolve as a defenseman. Green literally might be the most over rated player in the league. Thank God he didnt win the Norris, I would have went mental.

SpezDispenser wrote:

cas wrote:
Absolutely it is, but what makes us (with Heatley) so much worse than the Bostons, Phillys, Pittsburghs, and Washingtons of the league? Say what you want about there being no pressure on us last season, but I watched every one of those games. They were a different team under Clouston and they were more than capable of competing with the best teams in the league.

...and this coming year, they're a better team :n:

I actually don't disagree with you about most of this. I think if the right offer came along, Murray wouldn't hesitate, but that probably goes without saying.

As for the teams you listen, Chara, Timonnen, Gonchar and Green are what makes them so much better IMO.

No disagreement there... Funny how 'Karlsson' seems to fit so well with those names, though, isn't it?

cas wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:
Cas is bang on here. Hate to tell you that but you're out in left feild thinking if The Sens are running through The East that Heatley will get dealt if he is on the team. Once again, the logo is more important then the name on the back. The only possible reason you deal Dany Heatley in season is if things are so disfunctional early on things have to change.

If The Sens and Heatley go 2-3 rounds deep into the playoffs Heatley's value will be a lot higher and teams will probably clear space going into next season knowing he is available.

No chance Murray risks screwing up something that has the possibility of being a great season if all in well on the ice. Melnyk would probably fire him on the spot.

Running through the East? :^^^^: When did that become a possibility? If we're on top of the Conference, then that's a completely different story. If we're a fringe playoff team that could use an infusion of talent that could make us deeper, isn't that a completely different scenario?

If Heatley/Alfi/Speza/Kovalev are our top 4 forwards with a decent defense (like we have now) and solid goaltending, what we have now, we can defently be on top of our division if the trend with Clouston continues. Good luck defending 2 scoring lines like that. Deal with Shannon/Fisher/Foligno as well on the 3rd line.

Thats the right line of thinking. Keep FFS together and piece together the top 2 lines - It means giving Kelly top-6 minutes or Regin stepping up big time out of training camp Oh man how sweet that would be! I'm also of the opinion that Winch has a hell of a lot more offensive punch than we've seen, so I can see him in the top-6 (def top-9)

Top 9 of this:

Heatley-Spezza-Kovalev
Winchester-Regin/Kelly-Alfredsson
Foligno-Fisher-Shannon

...looks pretty good. You can literally take any player in each position and rotate them through lines and make it work. Thats actually a scary top-9 if they're clicking.

My lines would be

Heatley/Spezza/Winchester or Regin
Alfi/Kelly/Kovalev
Shannon/Fisher/Foligno

People are gonna say they tried Winchester there last year but the guy I saw playing the last 2 months of the season wasnt the guy who started it. Totally different player who improved on every level with tones more confidence.

Kelly has also shown in the past he can produce along side Alfi in a big way.

Neely4Life wrote:

cas wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:Cas dude, you are bang here, dont know what else to say.

Scenario A - Sens get off to a good start and everythign is good on the ice and things are clicking, Heatley doesnt go anywhere.

Scenario B - Sens struggle out of the gate (meaning a 500 start with their schedual) and Heatley gets dealt before X-mas. Murray wont watch the season go into the crapper for 3 months because Heatley is here.

Those are the only two real logical possibilities for The Sens.

Scenario C - Someone offers something that just cant be turned down and Murray has no choice. I would be heavy money against this though as you can basically elimiate anyone in The East who is in the playoff race.

I don't believe in scenario B. The very simple reason starts with O and ends with lympics. Say what you want about Heatley being a selfish prick, but trust me when I say that that selfish prick won't allow Canada's all time leading international goals/assists/points leader (himself) to not be a part of the Redeem team.

Given this, I also believe that scenario C is all the more likely...probably the most likely of the 3.

Just because Heatley might be playing well doesnt mean everyone around him will be, again, the distraction could be huge for other players, not just Heatley.

The biggest unknown in the NHL this year is an Ottawa team with Heatley on it. I think the possibility of The Sens finishing last is just as likely as them finishing 1st in their division. It's sink or swin IMO.

The reason I dont see Scenario C being a real possibility at the deadline is because no one will subtract from their team (at least what Murray would want) in the middle of the season.

True, but he has to be comfortable to play well and if there's tension around him day in, day out, then he won't be performing to that level.

I also don't think the players on this team are going to let this ruin their season. I really believe there is now FAR too much character in the dressing room to allow that to happen. Heatley will fall in line.

I believe in the guys too but I also KNOW the Ottawa media will be in ther every day with their usual song and dance.

Anyways, I think the season can go either way at this point even if Heatley plays well for them. Leclaire could bust a knee, Alfi and Kovalev could play like they are 50, who knows. One injury and it could throw everything else into a tail spin.

Neely4Life wrote:
My lines would be

Heatley/Spezza/Winchester or Regin
Alfi/Kelly/Kovalev
Shannon/Fisher/Foligno

People are gonna say they tried Winchester there last year but the guy I saw playing the last 2 months of the season wasnt the guy who started it. Totally different player who improved on every level with tones more confidence.

Kelly has also shown in the past he can produce along side Alfi in a big way.

I don't disagree with what you're saying but I don't feel your lines.

I can't see Regin anywhere but at center. I don't see Alfie and Kovalev playing anything but RW (aren't you the guy who was so adament that those two would be on seperate lines as our "number 1 and 2 RW's"?) and obviously I don't see them being on the same line. It actually makes a lot of sense to spread that kind of talent throughout two lines.

Wasnt me who said they had to be on 2 seperate line. I just said you cant have that much scoring all on one line then it being paper thing everywhere else.

I dont think Regin makes the team out of camp anyways but I was just throwing that out there.

Neely4Life wrote:I believe in the guys too but I also KNOW the Ottawa media will be in ther every day with their usual song and dance.

Anyways, I think the season can go either way at this point even if Heatley plays well for them. Leclaire could bust a knee, Alfi and Kovalev could play like they are 50, who knows. One injury and it could throw everything else into a tail spin.

I'm not trying to say we're guaranteed a good season. All I'm saying is that this team with Heatley playing well won't be looking to trade him at the deadline. I believe in them and I'm hopeful they'll have a good season, but thats as far as I'll go in the predictions game.

Seriously, with The Sens schedual anything less then a 10-5 start I'll seriously be questioning how good this team is, even if it's 9-6, I'll be worried, BIG TIME.

We'll see though.

Neely4Life wrote:Wasnt me who said they had to be on 2 seperate line. I just said you cant have that much scoring all on one line then it being paper thing everywhere else.

I dont think Regin makes the team out of camp anyways but I was just throwing that out there.

I don't think so either, but it would be pretty outstanding if he did. He has the skill necessary to play with Alfie and he would be a real boon to our offense.

The FFS line practically carried us through the final 2 months of the season, so even if the top-2 lines don't click right away, we should have time to tinker and make them work. I still like the looks of this top-6 with w/e changes need to get made:

Heatley-Spezza-Kovalev
Winchester-Kelly-Alfie

move them around and maybe you get:

Winchester-Spezza-Alfie
Heatley-Kelly-Kovalev
(I like this one too)

or:

Winchester-Spezza-Kovalev
Heatley-Kelly-Alfie (maybe it works like it did in '07 )

or:

Heatley-Spezza-Alfie
Winchester-Kelly-Kovalev

Whatever way it shakes out, FFS + the solid skill of our top-4 forwards should keep us afloat...

Either way, signing Kovalev will bring more blance to the offence then Ottawa has had since Havlat was here.

Neely4Life wrote:I actually don't disagree with you about most of this. I think if the right offer came along, Murray wouldn't hesitate, but that probably goes without saying.

As for the teams you listen, Chara, Timonnen, Gonchar and Green are what makes them so much better IMO.

Chara and Timonen, Gonchar, kinda... Green? We'll see how much longer he produces at a PPG pace if he ever wants to evolve as a defenseman. Green literally might be the most over rated player in the league. Thank God he didnt win the Norris, I would have went mental.[/quote]

No, I agree, he sucks defensively, but he's the key to running the Caps' transition, something we aren't exactly full of here in terms of talent.

I think Campoli can do it. Kuba's pretty good, but it gets a tad scarce after that.

Yeah man, Winchester could be a great top sixer, I saw great things at the end of the season.

SpezDispenser wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:I actually don't disagree with you about most of this. I think if the right offer came along, Murray wouldn't hesitate, but that probably goes without saying.

As for the teams you listen, Chara, Timonnen, Gonchar and Green are what makes them so much better IMO.

Chara and Timonen, Gonchar, kinda... Green? We'll see how much longer he produces at a PPG pace if he ever wants to evolve as a defenseman. Green literally might be the most over rated player in the league. Thank God he didnt win the Norris, I would have went mental.

No, I agree, he sucks defensively, but he's the key to running the Caps' transition, something we aren't exactly full of here in terms of talent.

I think Campoli can do it. Kuba's pretty good, but it gets a tad scarce after that.[/quote]

After Green's playoffs (both series) you will see teams running that guy through the boards. Guys come into the league all the time and rip it up at the start, now that the book is out on the guy, we'll see how he does.

cas wrote:
Likewise.

DW - you raise some good points, but I have to agree with N4L's take on it. It just doesn't make sense that a team would offer such quality assets for Heatley at the deadline that we could justify moving him. We won't be bottom feeders this year, so that precludes the idea of dealing for the future at the deadline.

I wasn't so much disagreeing as I was saying, you can't say it won't happen. There are too many factors to it all to say for sure it won't happen. I'd put it this way.


Chance of heatley being traded before the season. 40%
Chance of heatley being traded during the season. 15%
Chance of Heatley being traded at trade deadline. 25%

Chance of Heatley being traded next summer (prior to July 1st) 75%

Those are just my thoughts at this very moment in time.

I would say reverse the during the season and deadline. Again, I dont see Murray waiting out the season if things get off to a slow start, Heatley will be gone before the season is a total loss.

cas wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:

cas wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:Cas dude, you are bang here, dont know what else to say.

Scenario A - Sens get off to a good start and everythign is good on the ice and things are clicking, Heatley doesnt go anywhere.

Scenario B - Sens struggle out of the gate (meaning a 500 start with their schedual) and Heatley gets dealt before X-mas. Murray wont watch the season go into the crapper for 3 months because Heatley is here.

Those are the only two real logical possibilities for The Sens.

Scenario C - Someone offers something that just cant be turned down and Murray has no choice. I would be heavy money against this though as you can basically elimiate anyone in The East who is in the playoff race.

I don't believe in scenario B. The very simple reason starts with O and ends with lympics. Say what you want about Heatley being a selfish prick, but trust me when I say that that selfish prick won't allow Canada's all time leading international goals/assists/points leader (himself) to not be a part of the Redeem team.

Given this, I also believe that scenario C is all the more likely...probably the most likely of the 3.

Just because Heatley might be playing well doesnt mean everyone around him will be, again, the distraction could be huge for other players, not just Heatley.

The biggest unknown in the NHL this year is an Ottawa team with Heatley on it. I think the possibility of The Sens finishing last is just as likely as them finishing 1st in their division. It's sink or swin IMO.

The reason I dont see Scenario C being a real possibility at the deadline is because no one will subtract from their team (at least what Murray would want) in the middle of the season.

True, but he has to be comfortable to play well and if there's tension around him day in, day out, then he won't be performing to that level.

I also don't think the players on this team are going to let this ruin their season. I really believe there is now FAR too much character in the dressing room to allow that to happen. Heatley will fall in line.

Just playing devils advocate to your conversation with N4L here, but what if the team plays poorly and it's not because of Heatley. In other words, let's say Heatley comes back into the room and is a model citizen, saying all the right things, playing hard and getting his points, and the team still sucks, then what?

hemlock wrote:Just playing devils advocate to your conversation with N4L here, but what if the team plays poorly and it's not because of Heatley. In other words, let's say Heatley comes back into the room and is a model citizen, saying all the right things, playing hard and getting his points, and the team still sucks, then what?

I don't know "what then"... I just don't see it happening. I don't see how it happens?