Neil out to prove his worth

hemlock wrote:

Hard to argue with most of the points in this post, but this last statement pretty much sums it up for most Sens fans. Point is, if we are not getting any offense out of him, a policeman could have been had for under $2 million. Yes, loyalty is worth something no doubt, I just question whether it's worth an extra million with us being so tight against the cap.[/quote]

He brings a lot more than just policework. Neil is without a doubt one of the best hitters in the league (as MOI said). He draws penalties, gathers momentum through hits and fights and bleeds red, black and gold. There's no comparing Neil to Orr. Especially if they put him back in front of the net for the odd PP. He gets PP minutes, he'll pot enough goals to justify the contract to those who think that offensive stats are the whole measure of a player.

(Not saying that that's what you think. That's intended to be a blanket statement for anyone who tries to justify or diminish a player's value based solely on points.)

spader wrote:(Not saying that that's what you think. That's intended to be a blanket statement for anyone who tries to justify or diminish a player's value based solely on points.)

Not based solely on points. I think if you look at Neil's body of work, you could replace that for less than we signed him for. My thinking is: Is that difference worth his loyalty?

hemlock wrote:

spader wrote:(Not saying that that's what you think. That's intended to be a blanket statement for anyone who tries to justify or diminish a player's value based solely on points.)

Not based solely on points. I think if you look at Neil's body of work, you could replace that for less than we signed him for. My thinking is: Is that difference worth his loyalty?

I am not sure I agree. Not all fighters are big hitters and not all fighters can play 10 - 12 valuable minutes per game.

Not all big hitters can fight.

Neil being here means we don't have to waste a roster spot on a plug who is a defensive liability/ offensive liability that takes bad penalties at the worst times.

Neil is one of the very few policeman who could be in the NHL despite his fighting. That is worth something, oh and so is loyalty.

MurderOnIce wrote:

hemlock wrote:

spader wrote:(Not saying that that's what you think. That's intended to be a blanket statement for anyone who tries to justify or diminish a player's value based solely on points.)

Not based solely on points. I think if you look at Neil's body of work, you could replace that for less than we signed him for. My thinking is: Is that difference worth his loyalty?

I am not sure I agree. Not all fighters are big hitters and not all fighters can play 10 - 12 valuable minutes per game.

Not all big hitters can fight.

Neil being here means we don't have to waste a roster spot on a plug who is a defensive liability/ offensive liability that takes bad penalties at the worst times.

Neil is one of the very few policeman who could be in the NHL despite his fighting. That is worth something, oh and so is loyalty.

I don't think I can agree with that last statement. If Neil couldn't fight, he wouldn't be in the league scoring 3 goals a year. Sure he brings other things, but fighting and his willingness to drop the gloves for this team are his meal ticket imo. I do agree with your other points though.

hemlock wrote:
I don't think I can agree with that last statement. If Neil couldn't fight, he wouldn't be in the league scoring 3 goals a year. Sure he brings other things, but fighting and his willingness to drop the gloves for this team are his meal ticket imo. I do agree with your other points though.

Truth is he is not a defensive liability. He would hit no matter what (see Patrick Kaleta). He can irritate with the best of them. He can be effective sitting in front of the net on the PP. All of those things he can do without fighting. See Shean Donovan who has had a pretty nice career without dropping the gloves very often.

I'm with MOI here as well, Neil obviously got more then Ottawa would have liked to have payed him but the fact of the matter is he turned down MILLIONS of dollars to stay in Ottawa. I cant imagine myself having a million dollars let alone turning it down. IMO that is a big deal.

Like I have mentioned with Phillips, Fisher, it's important to have these leaders in the room that play hard every night and expect everyone else to do the same. You need these guys to be successful now and in the future.

People say Bass can step right in and do his job, well, he can't. Could he drop the gloves and play a regular shift on the 4th line? Absolutly. Can he provide the leadership Neil can? No. Can he play the PP like Neil can? No. Does he have the potential to put up 10 goals? Maybe, but Neil defently has that ability. Long story short, Bass might be a younger version of Neil, but he isn't Neil. If anything, Bass needs Neil there to actually become the player some people think he is. (again, he isnt in Neil league yet)

MurderOnIce wrote:

hemlock wrote:
I don't think I can agree with that last statement. If Neil couldn't fight, he wouldn't be in the league scoring 3 goals a year. Sure he brings other things, but fighting and his willingness to drop the gloves for this team are his meal ticket imo. I do agree with your other points though.

Truth is he is not a defensive liability. He would hit no matter what (see Patrick Kaleta). He can irritate with the best of them. He can be effective sitting in front of the net on the PP. All of those things he can do without fighting. See Shean Donovan who has had a pretty nice career without dropping the gloves very often.

Ok, but Neil has a penchant for bad penalties. I think a more appropriate guy to compare him to would be Ruutu. Granted Ruutu is not going to be an enforcer, but, he fights when the mood strikes (and is good at it. Check youtube for the epic Tucker fight), can agitate like few others, is adept at hitting, can score, and kills penalties. Oh yeah, and he's signed for about 700k less than Neil. When I see what Ruutu makes, I think Neil is overpaid. I'm not saying Neil needs to be moved, but I think Murray overpaid slightly for Neil's loyalty, and that's really my issue.

I agree we paid a lot but unfortunately that was the market. TO was willing to pay more as was NYR. Are those teams good examples of cap management? I don't think so but they forced our hand.

I guess at the end of the day I would rather have Neil and $700K less in cap space than not have Neil and start looking for a guy who can fill his role. There aren't many out there...

I'm sorry, I guess I must have missed all those UFA frenzy shows. I never heard or read that Neil was offered $2.9M by Burke. I do remember reading vague figures of $2.3-2.4M being discussed but, again, nothing was ever substantiated. No GM came and said, yeah, we offered him this much. If they did, I missed it.

Plus, even if Burke did offer him $2.9M, there's no way he would have given him 4 years. Neil can pretty much retire to raise his kids (his wife looked pretty pregnant in the Spezza wedding day pictures) when this contract is over.

Anyhow, I am a big fan of Neil, and I'll be cheering him on. I'm happy for him (and his family) scoring n $8M jackpot, but unless he averages 10 goals and 30-40 points in this contract nobody is going to convince me that he was worth that much.