Spezza For Thornton?

After reading the article and comments, one poster suggested the deal would needed to be expanded a little as we would be giving up the younger player with more upside. The more I thought about it I would have to agree. If SJ added a player like Couture I'd be all over it. If not I'd be stuck sitting on the fence and would be curious to see what Spezza could get us.

If a deal like this were to occur both teams would gain some cap relief over the next couple of years as Marleau comes off the books next year while Thornton in 2 years. Any deal would really shake up both teams without doing a complete blow up.

Heater - Thornton - Alfie
Folingo - Fisher - Shannon

Cheechoo - Spezza - Michalek
Clowe - Marleau/Pavelski - Setoguchi

Not a bad couple of top 2 lines.

I'd also imagine that with only 2 years to audition for his next contract, and with the added incentive of playing against the Bruins on a regular basis, Thornton could light it up back East.

This is the most accurate guage for Spezza's value. Think long and hard about it. The fact is, the Sharks would have to give up Thornton plus something else to make it close to a fair deal.

SeawaySensFan wrote:This is the most accurate guage for Spezza's value. Think long and hard about it. The fact is, the Sharks would have to give up Thornton plus something else to make it close to a fair deal.

Thornton has outscored Spezza every year that the two have been simultaneously in the league. And he's done it with Cheechoo, Michalek and this year Setoguchi, versus Heatley and Alfredsson.

Playoff PPG is a point, but Thornton's relied on to be the go-to guy, whereas Spezza defers regularly to Alfredsson. Plus, Thornton's been up against tighter-defensively-Western teams.

I don't see why the Sharks would have to add anything. Thornton's older and slightly more expensive, but he's better.

SeawaySensFan wrote:This is the most accurate guage for Spezza's value. Think long and hard about it. The fact is, the Sharks would have to give up Thornton plus something else to make it close to a fair deal.

Something like Spezza, Phillips for Thornton, Vlassic would have to be the deal. I'm not saying that exactly, but *young, old* for *old, young* seems like a more likely trade (keeping in mind this all comes from Brennan...)

Personally, I think Thornton might be ready to shake that playoff underperformer label and I also believe that having Thornton gives us a better chance to win while Alfie is still a key contributor.

That being said, I also think Spezza's upside is significantly higher than Thornton's peak. I'm still of the opinion that Spezza could and should be at (or near) the top of league scoring for the next decade.

That being said...I'm a Sens fan who has watched game after game after game, so I have even more significant questions about Spezza's heart and character.

I'm on the fence, but leaning toward doing it...

cash wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:This is the most accurate guage for Spezza's value. Think long and hard about it. The fact is, the Sharks would have to give up Thornton plus something else to make it close to a fair deal.

Something like Spezza, Phillips for Thornton, Vlassic would have to be the deal. I'm not saying that exactly, but *young, old* for *old, young* seems like a more likely trade (keeping in mind this all comes from Brennan...)

Personally, I think Thornton might be ready to shake that playoff underperformer label and I also believe that having Thornton gives us a better chance to win while Alfie is still a key contributor.

That being said, I also think Spezza's upside is significantly higher than Thornton's peak. I'm still of the opinion that Spezza could and should be at (or near) the top of league scoring for the next decade.

That being said...I'm a Sens fan who has watched game after game after game, so I have even more significant questions about Spezza's heart and character.

I'm on the fence, but leaning toward doing it...

Thornton turned Cheechoo into a 56 goal scorer, put up 125 points in 2005-2006 and won both the Art Ross and Hart trophies. He followed that up with a 114 point campaign in '07-'08.

I don't know how much better Spezza can be than that. I think Thornton's the better player (albeit I can find him boring to watch sometimes). He's also only 29 to Spezza's 25.

It's all about the playoffs for me, though. But then again, has Thornton ever had a player the calibre of Heatley or (especially) Alfredsson on his wing?

asq2 wrote:

cash wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:This is the most accurate guage for Spezza's value. Think long and hard about it. The fact is, the Sharks would have to give up Thornton plus something else to make it close to a fair deal.

Something like Spezza, Phillips for Thornton, Vlassic would have to be the deal. I'm not saying that exactly, but *young, old* for *old, young* seems like a more likely trade (keeping in mind this all comes from Brennan...)

Personally, I think Thornton might be ready to shake that playoff underperformer label and I also believe that having Thornton gives us a better chance to win while Alfie is still a key contributor.

That being said, I also think Spezza's upside is significantly higher than Thornton's peak. I'm still of the opinion that Spezza could and should be at (or near) the top of league scoring for the next decade.

That being said...I'm a Sens fan who has watched game after game after game, so I have even more significant questions about Spezza's heart and character.

I'm on the fence, but leaning toward doing it...

Thornton turned Cheechoo into a 56 goal scorer, put up 125 points in 2005-2006 and won both the Art Ross and Hart trophies. He followed that up with a 114 point campaign in '07-'08.

I don't know how much better Spezza can be than that. I think Thornton's the better player (albeit I can find him boring to watch sometimes). He's also only 29 to Spezza's 25.

It's all about the playoffs for me, though. But then again, has Thornton ever had a player the calibre of Heatley or (especially) Alfredsson on his wing?

I think it's because Thornton has already hit those big numbers a few years ago but has slowly started climbing down in terms if points that I wouldn't make this deal. Thornton might not hit 100 points again but Spezza very likely will.

Mojo wrote:

asq2 wrote:

cash wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:This is the most accurate guage for Spezza's value. Think long and hard about it. The fact is, the Sharks would have to give up Thornton plus something else to make it close to a fair deal.

Something like Spezza, Phillips for Thornton, Vlassic would have to be the deal. I'm not saying that exactly, but *young, old* for *old, young* seems like a more likely trade (keeping in mind this all comes from Brennan...)

Personally, I think Thornton might be ready to shake that playoff underperformer label and I also believe that having Thornton gives us a better chance to win while Alfie is still a key contributor.

That being said, I also think Spezza's upside is significantly higher than Thornton's peak. I'm still of the opinion that Spezza could and should be at (or near) the top of league scoring for the next decade.

That being said...I'm a Sens fan who has watched game after game after game, so I have even more significant questions about Spezza's heart and character.

I'm on the fence, but leaning toward doing it...

Thornton turned Cheechoo into a 56 goal scorer, put up 125 points in 2005-2006 and won both the Art Ross and Hart trophies. He followed that up with a 114 point campaign in '07-'08.

I don't know how much better Spezza can be than that. I think Thornton's the better player (albeit I can find him boring to watch sometimes). He's also only 29 to Spezza's 25.

It's all about the playoffs for me, though. But then again, has Thornton ever had a player the calibre of Heatley or (especially) Alfredsson on his wing?

I think it's because Thornton has already hit those big numbers a few years ago but has slowly started climbing down in terms if points that I wouldn't make this deal. Thornton might not hit 100 points again but Spezza very likely will.

This is what has me leaning towards keeping Spezz, but as a GM, you are faced with the same problems we are showing here, the What if's? The way I would look at it is SJ was on a decline in play at the end of the season, and Ottawa was on the rise, not to put that aside, and this argument might go against me, but Spezza is a player on the rise from the beginning of the season, and I think one of HockeyHero's posts put it best. It was something along the lines of I have never seen Spezza backcheck like that....well, ever. Now of course, who's to say he does that in training camp because come July 1st I believe, his NTC kicks in and he has more security. For me, there are too many what if's to jump at a deal like this, now if they include Clowe....do it up. :drooling:

Without reading anything in this thread. HELLS NO! Thornton is NOT a guy I would EVER want on my team.

SensGirl11 wrote:Without reading anything in this thread. HELLS NO! Thornton is NOT a guy I would EVER want on my team.

Why not.

If it comes down to who is the better player, its Thornton by a mile. If it's who's the better play maker, its Thornton. If its who is a tougher player, its Thornton.

The only thing Spezza has over Joe is age, and its only 4 years not to mention the extreme cap relief we would get in taking on a 2 year contract without an NTC vs a 6 year contract where the Sens hands are tied. Like ASQ said Thornton turned Cheechoo into a 56 goal man and there is no shot in hell Spezza could do that in San Jose.

Neely4Life wrote:If it comes down to who is the better player, its Thornton by a mile. If it's who's the better play maker, its Thornton. If its who is a tougher player, its Thornton.

The only thing Spezza has over Joe is age, and its only 4 years not to mention the extreme cap relief we would get in taking on a 2 year contract without an NTC vs a 6 year contract where the Sens hands are tied. Like ASQ said Thornton turned Cheechoo into a 56 goal man and there is no shot in hell Spezza could do that in San Jose.

Here's hoping Wilson hasn't pieced that together yet?? LOL

Neely4Life wrote:If it comes down to who is the better player, its Thornton by a mile. If it's who's the better play maker, its Thornton. If its who is a tougher player, its Thornton.

The only thing Spezza has over Joe is age, and its only 4 years not to mention the extreme cap relief we would get in taking on a 2 year contract without an NTC vs a 6 year contract where the Sens hands are tied. Like ASQ said Thornton turned Cheechoo into a 56 goal man and there is no shot in hell Spezza could do that in San Jose.

Spezza also has a birth to the Stanley Cup finals over Thornton.

Thornton has a world jr, a world cup, a world championship, and an olympic appearance. Spezza has a better loss... with 2 world class wingers holding his hand.

Spezza has absolutly nothing on Thornton, nothing.

Thornton would also be counted on for a lot less here than he was in San Jose. The pressure is on other guys in Ottawa and a lot less on Thornton. The more I think about it the more I think its a perfect fit.

Everyone's excuse before that didnt want to trade Spezza was "we would have no legit number 1 center", well this would be one of the mark key guys in the game coming back who has won a Art Ross and a Hart trophy (something Spezza will NEVER do). IMO this is becoming more and more of a no brainer.

Phoenix30 wrote:

SensGirl11 wrote:Without reading anything in this thread. HELLS NO! Thornton is NOT a guy I would EVER want on my team.

Why not.

I've never in my life seen a wose choker than Thornton. I would not touch that guy with a ten foot pole. He's amazing in the regular season, but when it comes down to the nitty gritty of the playoffs, he chokes. I've never seen anything like it. I don't think this guy has ever been to a Final, or even came close enough to smell a Final. He's damaged goods in the playoffs, and I don't know why. Spezza has already proven, even if for only one year, that he can do it in the playoffs. I will admit that Spezza needs to learn to work around playing against much tougher opponents (Anaheim) that can shut him down no problem, but he's young enough to learn. I won't give up on him. If Murray wants to give up on him, so be it. But, I wouldn't.

SensGirl11 wrote:

Phoenix30 wrote:

SensGirl11 wrote:Without reading anything in this thread. HELLS NO! Thornton is NOT a guy I would EVER want on my team.

Why not.

I've never in my life seen a wose choker than Thornton. I would not touch that guy with a ten foot pole. He's amazing in the regular season, but when it comes down to the nitty gritty of the playoffs, he chokes. I've never seen anything like it. I don't think this guy has ever been to a Final, or even came close enough to smell a Final. He's damaged goods in the playoffs, and I don't know why. Spezza has already proven, even if for only one year, that he can do it in the playoffs. I will admit that Spezza needs to learn to work around playing against much tougher opponents (Anaheim) that can shut him down no problem, but he's young enough to learn. I won't give up on him. If Murray wants to give up on him, so be it. But, I wouldn't.

Thornton has a world cup, world jr, world championship, art ross, hart trophy, and he isnt even 30 yet. Say what you want about Thornton but he has played in the big games and has won. He has also proven he is one of the best players on the planet. I'll take a motivated, refreshed, new chance Thornton over the NTC, had everything handed to me Spezza.

Thornton has also played in the West with much better teams and played with maybe the worst captain in the league. Its not like the Sens had to go through Detroit, Anahiem, Vancouver, Calgary to get to the finals. Thornton obviously has a lot to prove come the playoffs but Spezza wouldnt even be a factor if he was out in the West, he would be absolutly eaten alive.

Neely4Life wrote:

SensGirl11 wrote:

Phoenix30 wrote:

SensGirl11 wrote:Without reading anything in this thread. HELLS NO! Thornton is NOT a guy I would EVER want on my team.

Why not.

I've never in my life seen a wose choker than Thornton. I would not touch that guy with a ten foot pole. He's amazing in the regular season, but when it comes down to the nitty gritty of the playoffs, he chokes. I've never seen anything like it. I don't think this guy has ever been to a Final, or even came close enough to smell a Final. He's damaged goods in the playoffs, and I don't know why. Spezza has already proven, even if for only one year, that he can do it in the playoffs. I will admit that Spezza needs to learn to work around playing against much tougher opponents (Anaheim) that can shut him down no problem, but he's young enough to learn. I won't give up on him. If Murray wants to give up on him, so be it. But, I wouldn't.

Thornton has a world cup, world jr, world championship, art ross, hart trophy, and he isnt even 30 yet. Say what you want about Thornton but he has played in the big games and has won. He has also proven he is one of the best players on the planet. I'll take a motivated, refreshed, new chance Thornton over the NTC, had everything handed to me Spezza.

Thornton has also played in the West with much better teams and played with maybe the worst captain in the league. Its not like the Sens had to go through Detroit, Anahiem, Vancouver, Calgary to get to the finals. Thornton obviously has a lot to prove come the playoffs but Spezza wouldnt even be a factor if he was out in the West, he would be absolutly eaten alive.

Who cares? Those aren't Stanley Cups. THAT is what matters in the NHL, not a bunch of World Championships...Spezza will probably get one of those this year too. Will THAT make him better? Playing against Belarus, Hungary, Latvia, France...I personally could care less about those championships, that's just me though. He has an Art Ross and a Hart, those are great accomplishments. Give Spezza time, he's got 5 years to go before he hits 30.

Thornton moved to the West what, 3 years ago? What has he accomplished? Getting knocked out of the playoffs in the 1st round every year? Not showing up when it counts? Experiencing the worst embarassement ever this year, I mean, it's really really really sad to win the President's Trophy, and losing in the 1st round. How is that a winner? Again, he's AWESOME KICK Donkey COOL in the regular season, but he's nothing in the playoffs. No deal for me.

Beside Thornton as a rookie, I dont think he ever failed to make the playoffs...

Winning those difference championships does prove something, it proves that he can play on a winning team and he can be a winner. I dont put a lot of stock into the WC, but the World Cup was the best of the best of the best in the world and Thornton came out on top playing a huge role. The World Jr (who Spezza had 3 cracks at) is also a fairly big deal. In the NHL itself, does it mean anything? No, not really. Does that mean the Russian teams of the 70's and 80's wernt world class because they didnt win the cup? Bottom line is they won somewhere along the line which does mean something.

Thornton achieved more than Spezza ever will, and he is hands down a better player. Thornton back in the East as wide open as it is, may very well be as scary as it gets for 14 other teams in the East.

Spezza in the West, 14 other teams are just waiting for the turn over and to lay him out.