Spezza For Thornton?

By everyone's favourite (OK, maybe second favourite)
Ottawa Sun hockey scribbler...

OFF THE POSTS Ottawa Sun May 02, 2009 17:07 pm

by Don Brennan

Would ya?

It was suggested to me this morning by a friend in the business that the Senators and Sharks might want to consider a 1-for-1, high-profile trade that would give each team a significant shake on the heels of a disappointing season:
Jason Spezza for Joe Thornton.

Now, some people will say that's like swapping apples for apples, but that's not exactly the case, and even if it was, so what? It'd still be trading a Granny Smiths for a MacIntosh. They may be similar, but they are not exactly the same.

For your comparison purposes:

Spezza, who is 25, is listed as 6-foot-2, 206 pounds. He has 418 points in 404 regular season games. He has 39 points in 40 playoff games. He'll make $8 million for each of the next four years.

Thornton, who is 29, is listed as 6-foot-4, 235 pounds. He has scored 842 points in 836 regular season games. He has 53 points (and just 12 goals) in 76 playoff games. He'll make $7.2 million for each of the next two seasons.

My opinion: The younger Spezza has more upside. But if the cap goes down, as expected, that salary could be a real handicap.

Thornton's size is a plus, even if he doesn't always play that big, and he really does need to improve his playoff numbers. But then, he hasn't had the benefit of playing on a line with Daniel Alfredsson and Dany Heatley, either.

Based primarily on contract considerations and because I already have Heatley, Alfredsson and Mike Fisher extended until the end of the 2012-2013 season, I think I'd make that deal if I'm the Senators.

If I'm the Sharks, who need some hope that things will get better to sell their fans over the summer, I'd certainly do it.

http://blog.canoe.ca/offtheposts/2009/05/02/would_ya

And the best part is...Don wants you to send him his comments.

See the link above.

As much as I still like Spezza, I'd do that in a heartbeat. But I'd thought about it already, so it would not be a rash decision.

Thornton is bigger and plays bigger. His playoff numbers are puzzling, but don't forget he plays in the West. What were Spezza's PPG numbers in the 5 games against Anaheim, eh?

By the way, is Brennan a moron when it comes to math? Spezza's cap hit is $200K lower than Thornton's. yes, the term is 4 years versus 2, but Brennan was specifically concerned about the cap situation.

Yeah, Spezza is actually cheaper.

Not sure where Brennan's getting his figures from. TSN has Spezza at 6'3", 213 lbs. Sportsnet has him at the same height and 214 lbs. NHL.com has him at 215 (and 6'3").

Size isn't a huge difference (har har) between them.

Jumo Joe's unquestionably the better player, but I'm more interested in improving our team in terms of the playoffs than worsening it.

davetherave wrote:By everyone's favourite (OK, maybe second favourite)
Ottawa Sun hockey scribbler...

OFF THE POSTS Ottawa Sun May 02, 2009 17:07 pm

by Don Brennan

Would ya?

It was suggested to me this morning by a friend in the business that the Senators and Sharks might want to consider a 1-for-1, high-profile trade that would give each team a significant shake on the heels of a disappointing season:
Jason Spezza for Joe Thornton.

Now, some people will say that's like swapping apples for apples, but that's not exactly the case, and even if it was, so what? It'd still be trading a Granny Smiths for a MacIntosh. They may be similar, but they are not exactly the same.

For your comparison purposes:

Spezza, who is 25, is listed as 6-foot-2, 206 pounds. He has 418 points in 404 regular season games. He has 39 points in 40 playoff games. He'll make $8 million for each of the next four years.

Thornton, who is 29, is listed as 6-foot-4, 235 pounds. He has scored 842 points in 836 regular season games. He has 53 points (and just 12 goals) in 76 playoff games. He'll make $7.2 million for each of the next two seasons.

My opinion: The younger Spezza has more upside. But if the cap goes down, as expected, that salary could be a real handicap.

Thornton's size is a plus, even if he doesn't always play that big, and he really does need to improve his playoff numbers. But then, he hasn't had the benefit of playing on a line with Daniel Alfredsson and Dany Heatley, either.

Based primarily on contract considerations and because I already have Heatley, Alfredsson and Mike Fisher extended until the end of the 2012-2013 season, I think I'd make that deal if I'm the Senators.

If I'm the Sharks, who need some hope that things will get better to sell their fans over the summer, I'd certainly do it.

http://blog.canoe.ca/offtheposts/2009/05/02/would_ya

And the best part is...Don wants you to send him his comments.

See the link above.

HAHAHAh... ugh... No mas, no mas...

But Thornton is somebody who made Cheechoo a 56 goal man... Translate that to Heatley, it would make him a 100 goal man.

Ugh, if you are trying to develope a certain atmosphere around the Sens Thornton isnt exactly the guy I would want leading the charge. Thornton is obviously the better player, more physical, so on, but this is just kind of spimming your wheels. But it does give you better options in terms of the cap in a year or two, so I'm kind of on the fence.

Maybe Thornton is at the point in his career where he just wants to shut everyone up in the hockey world too, where Spezza has been to the finals and has his career contract and has no motivation... I dunno, tough call. I would probably do it.

Also, if people criticize Spezza for his give-aways...

Actually, AO led the league in GAs this year. Thornton held that title last season though.

asq2 wrote:Also, if people criticize Spezza for his give-aways...

Actually, AO led the league in GAs this year. Thornton held that title last season though.

Thornton does not turn the puck over where Spezza does on the ice and at the same times in games. Spezza turnovers are very often poor decisions or a result of lazy play.

Turnovers are a part of any playmakers game, but Spezza's are often in his own zone and at both bluelines at very bad times. Thornton not so much.

Um.......YES!! :drooling:

Neely4Life wrote:

asq2 wrote:Also, if people criticize Spezza for his give-aways...

Actually, AO led the league in GAs this year. Thornton held that title last season though.

Thornton does not turn the puck over where Spezza does on the ice and at the same times in games. Spezza turnovers are very often poor decisions or a result of lazy play.

Turnovers are a part of any playmakers game, but Spezza's are often in his own zone and at both bluelines at very bad times. Thornton not so much.

Really? Most of them seem to be at the opposition's blue-line.

asq2 wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:

asq2 wrote:Also, if people criticize Spezza for his give-aways...

Actually, AO led the league in GAs this year. Thornton held that title last season though.

Thornton does not turn the puck over where Spezza does on the ice and at the same times in games. Spezza turnovers are very often poor decisions or a result of lazy play.

Turnovers are a part of any playmakers game, but Spezza's are often in his own zone and at both bluelines at very bad times. Thornton not so much.

Really? Most of them seem to be at the opposition's blue-line.

If they were just at the other teams blueline, I dont think people would bring it up so much. He makes drop passes in the nutral zone (constantly), always tries to go up the middle in his own zone when he is actually playing decent defense, and when he isnt, he fires the puck without looking in his own zone.

Again, turnovers are not a big deal when its just trying to create offense in the other teams end, but he tried to do the same things in the nutral zone and his own end when the simple play is the right one.

"Turnovers are a part of my game" as he likes to say is a BS excuse for being stupid with the puck.

asq2 wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:

asq2 wrote:Also, if people criticize Spezza for his give-aways...

Actually, AO led the league in GAs this year. Thornton held that title last season though.

Thornton does not turn the puck over where Spezza does on the ice and at the same times in games. Spezza turnovers are very often poor decisions or a result of lazy play.

Turnovers are a part of any playmakers game, but Spezza's are often in his own zone and at both bluelines at very bad times. Thornton not so much.

Really? Most of them seem to be at the opposition's blue-line.

It's true, the majority of his turnovers are at the opposition's blue line. Spezza is usually the guy who takes the puck in his own zone and brings it over the opposing blue line, which sometimes results in a turnover.

As for Spezza for Thorton... not in a million years. Thornton should be in is prime right now. If this is how he plays, especially in the playoffs, then I wouldn't touch him. Spezza, despite some great numbers in previous years, still has his best years ahead of him.

It would be interesting to give it a spin, considering Thornton only has 2 more years... he'd be hell bent on getting the Playoff Monkey off his back. And if it does not work out, it's only 2 years...



I gotta say, I'm tempted to say I like this... at first I was dead against it as I was of the opinion we'd be getting a known playoff under-performer... which we've had our share of already... but who knows. I'm on the fence too...

After reading the article and comments, one poster suggested the deal would needed to be expanded a little as we would be giving up the younger player with more upside. The more I thought about it I would have to agree. If SJ added a player like Couture I'd be all over it. If not I'd be stuck sitting on the fence and would be curious to see what Spezza could get us.

If a deal like this were to occur both teams would gain some cap relief over the next couple of years as Marleau comes off the books next year while Thornton in 2 years. Any deal would really shake up both teams without doing a complete blow up.

Heater - Thornton - Alfie
Folingo - Fisher - Shannon

Cheechoo - Spezza - Michalek
Clowe - Marleau/Pavelski - Setoguchi

Not a bad couple of top 2 lines.

I'd also imagine that with only 2 years to audition for his next contract, and with the added incentive of playing against the Bruins on a regular basis, Thornton could light it up back East.

This is the most accurate guage for Spezza's value. Think long and hard about it. The fact is, the Sharks would have to give up Thornton plus something else to make it close to a fair deal.