GAME DAY: Toronto Maple Leafs @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Mar. 9th, 2009

Cronie wrote:you do bring up a good point Bee.
Spezza is an idiot for playing with that stick so late in the game, and props to Wilson for picking up on it. I just question why he had to resort to that tactic, which brings me to the fact that even though Wilson is saying publicly and quite vocally that the leafs will NOT make the playoffs, he must think they can; otherwise why pull that move out of your hat in a NOTHING game?!

Further to the Spezza thing, we ALL know what he's like and his personality and quirks, so this is NOTHING new either.

Well, obviously the team doesn't share the sentiment, because on that PK the Sens went out and got Spezza off the hook. They had two glorious chances (two shots by my count -- for some reason they didn't count Ruutu's) to the Leafs' beg fat zero.

A little while back someone posted a clip of Spezza, mc'd up on the bench. You can't listen to that and still continue to call him selfish, arrogant, me-first, not a leader etc.

I had the opportunity to sit just a couple of rows back of the Ducks' bench in a game at the SBC two years ago. I was almost within whispering distance of Scotty Niedermayer. I have never seen a man seem more disinterested. He'd finish his shift, hop over the boards, sit at the end of the bench and just wait for his next shift. No patting players on the back, no encouraging words or constructive criticism. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. The whole freaking game.

Does that mean he is not a good leader? I know what I think, but I'm obviously wrong, right?

wprager wrote:

Acrobat wrote:

asq2 wrote:Well, at least he showed some selflessness by breaking his stick (a pretty costly thing) to try to avoid a penalty and not put his team in a hole.

Selflessness? I didn't think they actually paid for their own sticks.
Definitely showed quick thinking and foresight, though.

Foresight would have been to use a legal stick late in the game.

If he actually had one around.

Hayden wrote:I sat beside the goal judge (in the sens end) and we jumped up and banged the glass after Alfie's goal. The usher kindly told us not to do that again - only in Ottawa.

Thank god I smacked the hell out of it the first time.

Did they give you a reason?
Was the glass going to break? Would it bother the players?
Or was it just "un-Ottawa-like"?

No wonder we have a reputation as fans for just sitting on our hands.

wprager wrote:Your paraphrasing skills are somewhat questionable.

This is what he said:

Nobody here knows the rules. I
don't know what the clarification is. We still never got an answer.
(Refereee Dan O'Halloran) just told me it was too skinny. It's
apparently too skinny. Real dangerous, I guess."

I assumed they measured the curve (which was illegal for sure) but when I found out it was the thickness I had to look it up in the rule book. This is what I found in the 2007-08 rule book (I doubt this part changed since then):

In cases where a stick may have been modified and it is evident that the edges have not been beveled, the Referee shall deem the stick to be dangerous equipment and removed from the game until the
edges can be beveled sufficiently. No penalty is to assessed initially unless the player returns to the ice with the unmodified stick, for which he will be assessed a minor penalty for delay of game.

I continued reading for a while, but apart from this rule, plus the rules on shaft length, blade width (not thickness), blade length and, of course, blade curvature, there are no other rules.

So, perhaps Jason was right in saying that no-one here knows the rules.

It pains me to say this, but is it possible that Spezza was right, and the coach/officials were all wrong, due to lesser knowledge?

On the other hand, this is an important point to get clarification on (from Ottawa's standpoint) as they should be able to argue any penalty successfully in the future [unless of course he is traded, in which case, at least they know not to get the thickness measured in the future...]

One of the things about seeing a game live is that you realize how little you actually see watching it on TV. (Which could bring us to another discussion about why television coverage of hockey is so lousy, but that's another matter.)

Dany Heatley. Yes, he scores goals. And he's very, very good at it.

But in each of the games I've seen at SBP this year, I've come away with the same feeling after watching what Heatley doesn't do.

Overpaid? He defines the word.

One of the Scotiabank Place workers, who takes care of the VIP and corporate visitors, chatted before the game with our group sitting at the centre ice. He shared this perspective: "Laziest player I've ever seen? Number 15."

I don't know if I'd call him the laziest I've ever seen (mind you , I'm probably older than that worker), but I don't miss that on TV at all. Although I have to say that last night he was being a lot more physical pushing people around, fighting for the puck and for room. On too many nights, though, yeah, he scores two goals but he has 3-4 shots on goal and precious little else. Imagine if he put up as many shots as Ovechkin?

davetherave wrote:One of the things about seeing a game live is that you realize how little you actually see watching it on TV. (Which could bring us to another discussion about why television coverage of hockey is so lousy, but that's another matter.)

Dany Heatley. Yes, he scores goals. And he's very, very good at it.

But in each of the games I've seen at SBP this year, I've come away with the same feeling after watching what Heatley doesn't do.

Overpaid? He defines the word.

One of the Scotiabank Place workers, who takes care of the VIP and corporate visitors, chatted before the game with our group sitting at the centre ice. He shared this perspective: "Laziest player I've ever seen? Number 15."

On the other hand, things Ive seen live that we dont see on TV, I saw him tap a few players (youngsters, for the most part) on the back everytime they would make a good play with effort. Id say he at least has a bit of leadership in him.

By the way, Smith's injury finally shows up on the "Movements" page. He's listed as lower-body, D2D:
http://www.forecaster.ca/hockeyplus/hockey/movements.cgi?NHL&x_option=3

The snipers always look lazy. I'll happily take the goals and leave the grinding to the grinders and the skating really fast to the Fishers.

Acrobat wrote:

wprager wrote:Your paraphrasing skills are somewhat questionable.

This is what he said:

Nobody here knows the rules. I
don't know what the clarification is. We still never got an answer.
(Refereee Dan O'Halloran) just told me it was too skinny. It's
apparently too skinny. Real dangerous, I guess."

I assumed they measured the curve (which was illegal for sure) but when I found out it was the thickness I had to look it up in the rule book. This is what I found in the 2007-08 rule book (I doubt this part changed since then):

In cases where a stick may have been modified and it is evident that the edges have not been beveled, the Referee shall deem the stick to be dangerous equipment and removed from the game until the
edges can be beveled sufficiently. No penalty is to assessed initially unless the player returns to the ice with the unmodified stick, for which he will be assessed a minor penalty for delay of game.

I continued reading for a while, but apart from this rule, plus the rules on shaft length, blade width (not thickness), blade length and, of course, blade curvature, there are no other rules.

So, perhaps Jason was right in saying that no-one here knows the rules.

It pains me to say this, but is it possible that Spezza was right, and the coach/officials were all wrong, due to lesser knowledge?

On the other hand, this is an important point to get clarification on (from Ottawa's standpoint) as they should be able to argue any penalty successfully in the future [unless of course he is traded, in which case, at least they know not to get the thickness measured in the future...]

That's why I used the term paraphrasing. Were you to hear the contempt in Spezza's voice like Wilson and the refs were lower that whale Dung for bothering HIM with a Dung call.

The call very well may have been bogus. I am not aware of the stick thickness rule. I thought they only measured curve, personally.

It's his imperiousness that I have issue with, not the call

marakh wrote:On the other hand, things Ive seen live that we dont see on TV, I saw him tap a few players (youngsters, for the most part) on the back everytime they would make a good play with effort. Id say he at least has a bit of leadership in him.

Good call. I think he does this more than any of us know. He talked at great length with Brian Lee last night, pointing out things and smiling, tapping him on the arse. These things mean so much to a young player for learning.

beedub wrote:
That's why I used the term paraphrasing. Were you to hear the contempt in Spezza's voice like Wilson and the refs were lower that whale Dung for bothering HIM with a Dung call.

The call very well may have been bogus. I am not aware of the stick thickness rule. I thought they only measured curve, personally.

It's his imperiousness that I have issue with, not the call

To be honest I have no problem with Spezza having contempt for Wilson, he is an arse. As far as the stick call thing, it's bush league and if they didn't know the rule on top of it and gave him an undeserved penalty anyway, I would be pissed too. I really have no problem with his reaction personally.

Wilson did the right thing, it's in the rules, so might as well use it. I think they got the call wrong, but it's within his rights.

The thing about Wilson is...I wonder if he is starting to realize what he's gotten himself into. His remarks about Spezza's stick being 'dangerous' and protecting Gerber 'from the Ottawa media" wreak of a guy who's tired of everything - and knows full well that there are years of this ahead.

I personally don't think he lasts past next year.

Acrobat wrote:

Hayden wrote:I sat beside the goal judge (in the sens end) and we jumped up and banged the glass after Alfie's goal. The usher kindly told us not to do that again - only in Ottawa.

Thank god I smacked the hell out of it the first time.

Did they give you a reason?
Was the glass going to break? Would it bother the players?
Or was it just "un-Ottawa-like"?

No wonder we have a reputation as fans for just sitting on our hands.

My wife almost got us ejected for something similar. We were behind the Washington bench for a game a few years ago. She was making fun of Dave Hunter for his beak and Simon for his lady like hair. (Not the greatest guys to pick on but whatever...) So she started to bang the glass after the Sens scored and she was told she had to stop or she would be removed. I asked why and the usher said 'Because the visiting team felt threatened'. My wife is a buck twenty five and we are talking about Chris Simon and Dave Hunter, who was a coach, but that beak hadn't been broken so many times in choir practice. Anyway, I know it was more for being annoying than making the visiting team 'feel threatened'. I just thought the explanation was hilarious.

504Heater wrote:Wilson did the right thing, it's in the rules, so might as well use it. I think they got the call wrong, but it's within his rights.

The thing about Wilson is...I wonder if he is starting to realize what he's gotten himself into. His remarks about Spezza's stick being 'dangerous' and protecting Gerber 'from the Ottawa media" wreak of a guy who's tired of everything - and knows full well that there are years of this ahead.

I personally don't think he lasts past next year.

It's a rule, it's just a rule that I think should be double sided... if you get it right the player with the illegal stick gets a penalty if you get it wrong... delay of game for you.

Other than that I am blinded by dislike for Wilson who is a pompus arse.

MurderOnIce wrote:

beedub wrote:
That's why I used the term paraphrasing. Were you to hear the contempt in Spezza's voice like Wilson and the refs were lower that whale Dung for bothering HIM with a Dung call.

The call very well may have been bogus. I am not aware of the stick thickness rule. I thought they only measured curve, personally.

It's his imperiousness that I have issue with, not the call

To be honest I have no problem with Spezza having contempt for Wilson, he is an arse. As far as the stick call thing, it's bush league and if they didn't know the rule on top of it and gave him an undeserved penalty anyway, I would be pissed too. I really have no problem with his reaction personally.

Of course Wilson is an arse. Warm and cuddly doesn't make for a very good coach. That's what makes him a damn great coach. I'll tell you who is bush, it's Jason Spezza for voicing his opinions in such an immature manner. There is a way to voice your discontent for something with class. Spezza is not aware of how to do that.

504Heater wrote:Wilson did the right thing, it's in the rules, so might as well use it. I think they got the call wrong, but it's within his rights.

The thing about Wilson is...I wonder if he is starting to realize what he's gotten himself into. His remarks about Spezza's stick being 'dangerous' and protecting Gerber 'from the Ottawa media" wreak of a guy who's tired of everything - and knows full well that there are years of this ahead.

I personally don't think he lasts past next year.

I think he knows he's got a lot of work to do in front of him. But he knew that coming in. toronto has no identity. He, along with Burke, will have to shape toronto's identity from scratch. Chances are pretty good that he'll start next year with only two of this years best players - Karberle and Blake.

I can't help myself but admire what he has accomplished with such garbage on his squad. He has almost nothing left. His goaltending has gone to Dung, his defense is not too far behind, his forwards are a bunch of nobodies, yet his club sits ahead of us.......

Wilson and Burke will be in play for years to come

504Heater wrote:

marakh wrote:On the other hand, things Ive seen live that we dont see on TV, I saw him tap a few players (youngsters, for the most part) on the back everytime they would make a good play with effort. Id say he at least has a bit of leadership in him.

Good call. I think he does this more than any of us know. He talked at great length with Brian Lee last night, pointing out things and smiling, tapping him on the arse. These things mean so much to a young player for learning.

A couple of smiles and taps on another players' arse (something that in another venue would get a guy killed, BTW), and he keeps his "A"? And gets to keep trying to touch the banners hanging from the ceiling?

Heck, I'll start working out ( :****: )if I can get $10M for that...