GAME DAY: Toronto Maple Leafs @ Ottawa Senators - 7:30pm EST - Mar. 9th, 2009

MurderOnIce wrote:

beedub wrote:
That's why I used the term paraphrasing. Were you to hear the contempt in Spezza's voice like Wilson and the refs were lower that whale Dung for bothering HIM with a Dung call.

The call very well may have been bogus. I am not aware of the stick thickness rule. I thought they only measured curve, personally.

It's his imperiousness that I have issue with, not the call

To be honest I have no problem with Spezza having contempt for Wilson, he is an arse. As far as the stick call thing, it's bush league and if they didn't know the rule on top of it and gave him an undeserved penalty anyway, I would be pissed too. I really have no problem with his reaction personally.

Of course Wilson is an arse. Warm and cuddly doesn't make for a very good coach. That's what makes him a damn great coach. I'll tell you who is bush, it's Jason Spezza for voicing his opinions in such an immature manner. There is a way to voice your discontent for something with class. Spezza is not aware of how to do that.

504Heater wrote:Wilson did the right thing, it's in the rules, so might as well use it. I think they got the call wrong, but it's within his rights.

The thing about Wilson is...I wonder if he is starting to realize what he's gotten himself into. His remarks about Spezza's stick being 'dangerous' and protecting Gerber 'from the Ottawa media" wreak of a guy who's tired of everything - and knows full well that there are years of this ahead.

I personally don't think he lasts past next year.

I think he knows he's got a lot of work to do in front of him. But he knew that coming in. toronto has no identity. He, along with Burke, will have to shape toronto's identity from scratch. Chances are pretty good that he'll start next year with only two of this years best players - Karberle and Blake.

I can't help myself but admire what he has accomplished with such garbage on his squad. He has almost nothing left. His goaltending has gone to Dung, his defense is not too far behind, his forwards are a bunch of nobodies, yet his club sits ahead of us.......

Wilson and Burke will be in play for years to come

504Heater wrote:

marakh wrote:On the other hand, things Ive seen live that we dont see on TV, I saw him tap a few players (youngsters, for the most part) on the back everytime they would make a good play with effort. Id say he at least has a bit of leadership in him.

Good call. I think he does this more than any of us know. He talked at great length with Brian Lee last night, pointing out things and smiling, tapping him on the arse. These things mean so much to a young player for learning.

A couple of smiles and taps on another players' arse (something that in another venue would get a guy killed, BTW), and he keeps his "A"? And gets to keep trying to touch the banners hanging from the ceiling?

Heck, I'll start working out ( :****: )if I can get $10M for that...

MurderOnIce wrote:
It's a rule, it's just a rule that I think should be double sided... if you get it right the player with the illegal stick gets a penalty if you get it wrong... delay of game for you.

Other than that I am blinded by dislike for Wilson who is a pompus arse.

Oh it's double-sided alright. If Wilson was wrong, the Sens were going to the PP for Delay of Game.

Is that Legit Heater? The rule(s) clearly states if a coach or whomever is WRONG, then they are handed a delay of game?

If so, that's COMPLETELY fair in my view. Plus, it also ensures (at least you would think) that whoever is thinking of raising it had better be damned sure they are spot-on.

Acrobat wrote:
A couple of smiles and taps on another players' arse (something that in another venue would get a guy killed, BTW), and he keeps his "A"? And gets to keep trying to touch the banners hanging from the ceiling?

Heck, I'll start working out ( :****: )if I can get $10M for that...

Can you also become the third highest goal scorer post-lockout? Or just post back-to-back 50 goal/50 assist seasons. That would ensure you'd get 10 mil.

Cronie wrote:Is that Legit Heater? The rule(s) clearly states if a coach or whomever is WRONG, then they are handed a delay of game?

If so, that's COMPLETELY fair in my view. Plus, it also ensures (at least you would think) that whoever is thinking of raising it had better be damned sure they are spot-on.

Yes indeed. I've seen it go both ways. Against (Jagr) and for I can't remember.

Acrobat wrote:

504Heater wrote:

marakh wrote:On the other hand, things Ive seen live that we dont see on TV, I saw him tap a few players (youngsters, for the most part) on the back everytime they would make a good play with effort. Id say he at least has a bit of leadership in him.

Good call. I think he does this more than any of us know. He talked at great length with Brian Lee last night, pointing out things and smiling, tapping him on the arse. These things mean so much to a young player for learning.

A couple of smiles and taps on another players' arse (something that in another venue would get a guy killed, BTW), and he keeps his "A"? And gets to keep trying to touch the banners hanging from the ceiling?

Heck, I'll start working out ( :****: )if I can get $10M for that...

Ten million dollars is way too much to pay for butt patting in lieu of real leadership, is it not?

beedub wrote:I think he knows he's got a lot of work to do in front of him. But he knew that coming in. toronto has no identity. He, along with Burke, will have to shape toronto's identity from scratch. Chances are pretty good that he'll start next year with only two of this years best players - Karberle and Blake.

I can't help myself but admire what he has accomplished with such garbage on his squad. He has almost nothing left. His goaltending has gone to Dung, his defense is not too far behind, his forwards are a bunch of nobodies, yet his club sits ahead of us.......

Wilson and Burke will be in play for years to come

Meh, the Leafs have been playing that card for a long, long time. We have scrubs, but we'll still finish 10th. It'll wear on Wilson - it already is IMO.

davetherave wrote:
Ten million dollars is way too much to pay for butt patting in lieu of real leadership, is it not?

Again - post back-to-back 50/50 seasons and you'll be in line for that kind of green as well.

504Heater wrote:

davetherave wrote:
Ten million dollars is way too much to pay for butt patting in lieu of real leadership, is it not?

Again - post back-to-back 50/50 seasons and you'll be in line for that kind of green as well.

Posting back to back 50 goal seasons doesn't mean a player's worth ten million bucks if he doesn't excel in every aspect of his game.

you may be right DTR, but what one GM refuses to pay for him, some other SURELY will step up and throw $$ at him.

It's the proverbial Catch-22 personified.

beedub wrote:

MurderOnIce wrote:

beedub wrote:
That's why I used the term paraphrasing. Were you to hear the contempt in Spezza's voice like Wilson and the refs were lower that whale Dung for bothering HIM with a Dung call.

The call very well may have been bogus. I am not aware of the stick thickness rule. I thought they only measured curve, personally.

It's his imperiousness that I have issue with, not the call

To be honest I have no problem with Spezza having contempt for Wilson, he is an arse. As far as the stick call thing, it's bush league and if they didn't know the rule on top of it and gave him an undeserved penalty anyway, I would be pissed too. I really have no problem with his reaction personally.

Of course Wilson is an arse. Warm and cuddly doesn't make for a very good coach. That's what makes him a damn great coach. I'll tell you who is bush, it's Jason Spezza for voicing his opinions in such an immature manner. There is a way to voice your discontent for something with class. Spezza is not aware of how to do that.

I think we have to agree to disagree. I don't want our players to have reverence for the coach of our most hated rival. I am not a fan of Wilson at all and certainly don't think Spezza should be polite when a call was made against him and essentially it was a bad call.

davetherave wrote:
Posting back to back 50 goal seasons doesn't mean a player's worth ten million bucks if he doesn't excel in every aspect of his game.

He's not worth 10 million, he's worth his cap hit of 7.5 million dollars. No one in the league gets paid 10 million - I guess Ovechkin's close at 9.5, but no one else is even close.

And yes, scoring is the name of the game, so I personally would disagree with you there. Heatley has an innate sixth sense for being at the right place at the right time with the skills to finish - that's something that not many guys in the league have. At least...not enough to net 50 goals back to back (with a third that got de-railed due to injury).

MurderOnIce wrote:

beedub wrote:

MurderOnIce wrote:

beedub wrote:
That's why I used the term paraphrasing. Were you to hear the contempt in Spezza's voice like Wilson and the refs were lower that whale Dung for bothering HIM with a Dung call.

The call very well may have been bogus. I am not aware of the stick thickness rule. I thought they only measured curve, personally.

It's his imperiousness that I have issue with, not the call

To be honest I have no problem with Spezza having contempt for Wilson, he is an arse. As far as the stick call thing, it's bush league and if they didn't know the rule on top of it and gave him an undeserved penalty anyway, I would be pissed too. I really have no problem with his reaction personally.

Of course Wilson is an arse. Warm and cuddly doesn't make for a very good coach. That's what makes him a damn great coach. I'll tell you who is bush, it's Jason Spezza for voicing his opinions in such an immature manner. There is a way to voice your discontent for something with class. Spezza is not aware of how to do that.

I think we have to agree to disagree. I don't want our players to have reverence for the coach of our most hated rival. I am not a fan of Wilson at all and certainly don't think Spezza should be polite when a call was made against him and essentially it was a bad call.

There is a massive difference between reverence and respect, but we can certainly agree to disagree.

I can put you out of your pain

I rewatched and they definitely were measuring the width of the toe. Spezza shaved it down so it was less than 2" wide (it has to be between 2" and 3" everywhere along the blade from the heel to the point a half-inch in from the center of the blade tip.

What a messed up rule.

And his curve is still illegal by a long shot.

Acrobat wrote:

wprager wrote:Your paraphrasing skills are somewhat questionable.

This is what he said:

Nobody here knows the rules. I
don't know what the clarification is. We still never got an answer.
(Refereee Dan O'Halloran) just told me it was too skinny. It's
apparently too skinny. Real dangerous, I guess."

I assumed they measured the curve (which was illegal for sure) but when I found out it was the thickness I had to look it up in the rule book. This is what I found in the 2007-08 rule book (I doubt this part changed since then):

In cases where a stick may have been modified and it is evident that the edges have not been beveled, the Referee shall deem the stick to be dangerous equipment and removed from the game until the
edges can be beveled sufficiently. No penalty is to assessed initially unless the player returns to the ice with the unmodified stick, for which he will be assessed a minor penalty for delay of game.

I continued reading for a while, but apart from this rule, plus the rules on shaft length, blade width (not thickness), blade length and, of course, blade curvature, there are no other rules.

So, perhaps Jason was right in saying that no-one here knows the rules.

It pains me to say this, but is it possible that Spezza was right, and the coach/officials were all wrong, due to lesser knowledge?

On the other hand, this is an important point to get clarification on (from Ottawa's standpoint) as they should be able to argue any penalty successfully in the future [unless of course he is traded, in which case, at least they know not to get the thickness measured in the future...]

504Heater wrote:Wilson did the right thing, it's in the rules, so might as well use it. I think they got the call wrong, but it's within his rights.

The thing about Wilson is...I wonder if he is starting to realize what he's gotten himself into. His remarks about Spezza's stick being 'dangerous' and protecting Gerber 'from the Ottawa media" wreak of a guy who's tired of everything - and knows full well that there are years of this ahead.

I personally don't think he lasts past next year.

He used the rule, no question. But so did a few GMs with offer sheets, and we saw how that went over (it was Burke's reaction, not Wilson's, but those two are cut from the same cloth).

I absolutely have no problem with using that rule in a crucial game of a playoff series (like the Habs against the Kings), but this was a *nothing* game between two non-playoff teams, and for that the term "bush league" is very appropriate.

504Heater wrote:

MurderOnIce wrote:
It's a rule, it's just a rule that I think should be double sided... if you get it right the player with the illegal stick gets a penalty if you get it wrong... delay of game for you.

Other than that I am blinded by dislike for Wilson who is a pompus arse.

Oh it's double-sided alright. If Wilson was wrong, the Sens were going to the PP for Delay of Game.

There's also a fine involved. $200 for the guy using the illegal stick (and it goes up with repeated infractions) but only $100 for a coach who wrongfully accused a player of cheating.