Spezza's Maturing

Mojo wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:I disagree with basically all of this, but if you want to keep Spezza in Ottawa, then Heatley has to go. If that happens, then you can work with Spezza, if not, the economics make zero sense and the Sens are up the creek for a long time.

Its not that complicated. One of the 7 million dollar salaries has to go!

I hear what you're saying in that we need to trim some large salary to be competitive, but Fisher is by far the guy (IMO) that needs to go. The money he makes doesn't come close to justifying the type of player he is. Maybe if he became a Brind'Amour type players I was hoping he would, it would be worth it, but he has just been slipping for the past two seasons. If he goes, we have the space to re-tool our team.

Exactly, it's a far better situation if Fisher goes and we get another quality 3rd line Center or even someone who could be a true 2nd line center for the same $ or a little less. Rather than trade Spezza and hope someone else can come in and do the no. 1 C job for less than $7M.

beerandsens wrote:

Mojo wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:I disagree with basically all of this, but if you want to keep Spezza in Ottawa, then Heatley has to go. If that happens, then you can work with Spezza, if not, the economics make zero sense and the Sens are up the creek for a long time.

Its not that complicated. One of the 7 million dollar salaries has to go!

I hear what you're saying in that we need to trim some large salary to be competitive, but Fisher is by far the guy (IMO) that needs to go. The money he makes doesn't come close to justifying the type of player he is. Maybe if he became a Brind'Amour type players I was hoping he would, it would be worth it, but he has just been slipping for the past two seasons. If he goes, we have the space to re-tool our team.

Exactly, it's a far better situation if Fisher goes and we get another quality 3rd line Center or even someone who could be a true 2nd line center for the same $ or a little less. Rather than trade Spezza and hope someone else can come in and do the no. 1 C job for less than $7M.

Again: Trading a player who's playing as well as was expected, minus the point-production (which is a problem for every single offensive player on this team) is not the answer to this team's problems.
Few of you would actually argue that if we could put Heatley's nose for the net onto Fisher, he'd be one of the truly elite, all-around superstars in the game. Given the market for players today, he is absolutely worth what he is being paid and the idea of trading a player who actually cares and tries away from this team - and the belief that this is somehow an answer to what ails us - is absolutely ridiculous.

cash wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:
Again, you dont need to get rid of Spezza if you can get rid of Heatley, but one of the two have to go. If you;re a Spezza lover, better hope Heatley waives his NTC.

Here's hoping *crosses fingers, legs, arms, toes, eyes...*

This talk of waiting it out with Heatley is exactly how teams lose value for their players. The simple fact is that Heatley is too slow for the new NHL. He will always be able to put points up, but he will always be a liability.
If it wasn't for his damn NTC, I would trade him so fast his head would spin.
(And much like Redden - and even more so - he would find success somewhere else)

This has to be one of the most ridiculous statements I have seen in a while. Heatley has been doing pretty well in the "new NHL". He may not be the fastest skater, but he does what he gets payed for, putting up the points.

I haven't gone through every player, but from what I can tell he is third in goals since the "new NHL" started three and half years ago. Ovechkin has 190 goals and is +42, Kovalchuk has 160 goals and is -32, Heatley has 157 goals and is +93, Lecavalier has 143 goals and is -11, and Iginla has 142 goals and is +44.

Heatley may not have Havlat speed, but is has been doing alright over the past three and a half seasons.

cash wrote:

beerandsens wrote:

Mojo wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:I disagree with basically all of this, but if you want to keep Spezza in Ottawa, then Heatley has to go. If that happens, then you can work with Spezza, if not, the economics make zero sense and the Sens are up the creek for a long time.

Its not that complicated. One of the 7 million dollar salaries has to go!

I hear what you're saying in that we need to trim some large salary to be competitive, but Fisher is by far the guy (IMO) that needs to go. The money he makes doesn't come close to justifying the type of player he is. Maybe if he became a Brind'Amour type players I was hoping he would, it would be worth it, but he has just been slipping for the past two seasons. If he goes, we have the space to re-tool our team.

Exactly, it's a far better situation if Fisher goes and we get another quality 3rd line Center or even someone who could be a true 2nd line center for the same $ or a little less. Rather than trade Spezza and hope someone else can come in and do the no. 1 C job for less than $7M.

Again: Trading a player who's playing as well as was expected, minus the point-production (which is a problem for every single offensive player on this team) is not the answer to this team's problems.
Few of you would actually argue that if we could put Heatley's nose for the net onto Fisher, he'd be one of the truly elite, all-around superstars in the game. Given the market for players today, he is absolutely worth what he is being paid and the idea of trading a player who actually cares and tries away from this team - and the belief that this is somehow an answer to what ails us - is absolutely ridiculous.

I personally don't think Fisher has been doing the things he should be, never mind the points. Since the start of last season, he has been missing a lot of the passion he used to have. It was those qualities that I admired in him and that made him one of my favourite Sens, but he just doesn't have it anymore. If that same passion was there, he would have the points along with it.

Mojo wrote:I personally don't think Fisher has been doing the things he should be, never mind the points. Since the start of last season, he has been missing a lot of the passion he used to have. It was those qualities that I admired in him and that made him one of my favourite Sens, but he just doesn't have it anymore. If that same passion was there, he would have the points along with it.

I'm sure the Excuseinator has a good reason. He's playing hurt, er, he's in love with a big music star, er, his pastor told him he had to choose between Jesus and Carrie, er, he's playing hurt (again), er, he chose Jesus and now he's having second thoughts....

cash wrote:

beerandsens wrote:

Mojo wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:I disagree with basically all of this, but if you want to keep Spezza in Ottawa, then Heatley has to go. If that happens, then you can work with Spezza, if not, the economics make zero sense and the Sens are up the creek for a long time.

Its not that complicated. One of the 7 million dollar salaries has to go!

I hear what you're saying in that we need to trim some large salary to be competitive, but Fisher is by far the guy (IMO) that needs to go. The money he makes doesn't come close to justifying the type of player he is. Maybe if he became a Brind'Amour type players I was hoping he would, it would be worth it, but he has just been slipping for the past two seasons. If he goes, we have the space to re-tool our team.

Exactly, it's a far better situation if Fisher goes and we get another quality 3rd line Center or even someone who could be a true 2nd line center for the same $ or a little less. Rather than trade Spezza and hope someone else can come in and do the no. 1 C job for less than $7M.

Again: Trading a player who's playing as well as was expected, minus the point-production (which is a problem for every single offensive player on this team) is not the answer to this team's problems.
Few of you would actually argue that if we could put Heatley's nose for the net onto Fisher, he'd be one of the truly elite, all-around superstars in the game. Given the market for players today, he is absolutely worth what he is being paid and the idea of trading a player who actually cares and tries away from this team - and the belief that this is somehow an answer to what ails us - is absolutely ridiculous.

Yes, but the "trade Fisher" scenario is my answer so far to the "one of these contracts has to go" puzzle. He is cap hit is over 50% of Spezza or Heater's while his production is 33%ish.

If not trading any of the hardworkers away is your ideal, who goes?

beerandsens wrote:

If not trading any of the hardworkers away is your ideal, who goes?

Craig Hartsburg.

hahaha. I don't necessarily think that's the solution, but you get style points :D

Mojo wrote:

cash wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:
Again, you dont need to get rid of Spezza if you can get rid of Heatley, but one of the two have to go. If you;re a Spezza lover, better hope Heatley waives his NTC.

Here's hoping *crosses fingers, legs, arms, toes, eyes...*

This talk of waiting it out with Heatley is exactly how teams lose value for their players. The simple fact is that Heatley is too slow for the new NHL. He will always be able to put points up, but he will always be a liability.
If it wasn't for his damn NTC, I would trade him so fast his head would spin.
(And much like Redden - and even more so - he would find success somewhere else)

This has to be one of the most ridiculous statements I have seen in a while. Heatley has been doing pretty well in the "new NHL". He may not be the fastest skater, but he does what he gets payed for, putting up the points.

I haven't gone through every player, but from what I can tell he is third in goals since the "new NHL" started three and half years ago. Ovechkin has 190 goals and is +42, Kovalchuk has 160 goals and is -32, Heatley has 157 goals and is +93, Lecavalier has 143 goals and is -11, and Iginla has 142 goals and is +44.

Heatley may not have Havlat speed, but is has been doing alright over the past three and a half seasons.

The new NHL has evolved. What you say about the past is true, but that doesn't change the fact that his pattern of poor performance followed by point outbursts, within individual games, isn't so. It also doesn't change the fact that he's slow as Diddle. And is a virtual non-threat when he plays this predictable, one-dimensional game.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Mojo wrote:I personally don't think Fisher has been doing the things he should be, never mind the points. Since the start of last season, he has been missing a lot of the passion he used to have. It was those qualities that I admired in him and that made him one of my favourite Sens, but he just doesn't have it anymore. If that same passion was there, he would have the points along with it.

I'm sure the Excuseinator has a good reason. He's playing hurt, er, he's in love with a big music star, er, his pastor told him he had to choose between Jesus and Carrie, er, he's playing hurt (again), er, he chose Jesus and now he's having second thoughts....

Am I the excuseinator? I must be because I don't see any of them playing with passion consistently. If the locker room is divided and people aren't playing for each other, then its hard to get that kind of passion from a heart-and-soul player. Same thing happens with Neil. In the calendar year of 2008, neither were as effective as one would expect them to be. It could be their own doing, but its not out of the realm of possibility to believe it was due to outside influences.

beerandsens wrote:

cash wrote:

beerandsens wrote:

Mojo wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:I disagree with basically all of this, but if you want to keep Spezza in Ottawa, then Heatley has to go. If that happens, then you can work with Spezza, if not, the economics make zero sense and the Sens are up the creek for a long time.

Its not that complicated. One of the 7 million dollar salaries has to go!

I hear what you're saying in that we need to trim some large salary to be competitive, but Fisher is by far the guy (IMO) that needs to go. The money he makes doesn't come close to justifying the type of player he is. Maybe if he became a Brind'Amour type players I was hoping he would, it would be worth it, but he has just been slipping for the past two seasons. If he goes, we have the space to re-tool our team.

Exactly, it's a far better situation if Fisher goes and we get another quality 3rd line Center or even someone who could be a true 2nd line center for the same $ or a little less. Rather than trade Spezza and hope someone else can come in and do the no. 1 C job for less than $7M.

Again: Trading a player who's playing as well as was expected, minus the point-production (which is a problem for every single offensive player on this team) is not the answer to this team's problems.
Few of you would actually argue that if we could put Heatley's nose for the net onto Fisher, he'd be one of the truly elite, all-around superstars in the game. Given the market for players today, he is absolutely worth what he is being paid and the idea of trading a player who actually cares and tries away from this team - and the belief that this is somehow an answer to what ails us - is absolutely ridiculous.

Yes, but the "trade Fisher" scenario is my answer so far to the "one of these contracts has to go" puzzle. He is cap hit is over 50% of Spezza or Heater's while his production is 33%ish.

If not trading any of the hardworkers away is your ideal, who goes?

Heatley.

cash wrote:Am I the excuseinator?

No. Mike Fisher is. And Goodie Wilson.

cash wrote:

beerandsens wrote:

cash wrote:

beerandsens wrote:

Mojo wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:I disagree with basically all of this, but if you want to keep Spezza in Ottawa, then Heatley has to go. If that happens, then you can work with Spezza, if not, the economics make zero sense and the Sens are up the creek for a long time.

Its not that complicated. One of the 7 million dollar salaries has to go!

I hear what you're saying in that we need to trim some large salary to be competitive, but Fisher is by far the guy (IMO) that needs to go. The money he makes doesn't come close to justifying the type of player he is. Maybe if he became a Brind'Amour type players I was hoping he would, it would be worth it, but he has just been slipping for the past two seasons. If he goes, we have the space to re-tool our team.

Exactly, it's a far better situation if Fisher goes and we get another quality 3rd line Center or even someone who could be a true 2nd line center for the same $ or a little less. Rather than trade Spezza and hope someone else can come in and do the no. 1 C job for less than $7M.

Again: Trading a player who's playing as well as was expected, minus the point-production (which is a problem for every single offensive player on this team) is not the answer to this team's problems.
Few of you would actually argue that if we could put Heatley's nose for the net onto Fisher, he'd be one of the truly elite, all-around superstars in the game. Given the market for players today, he is absolutely worth what he is being paid and the idea of trading a player who actually cares and tries away from this team - and the belief that this is somehow an answer to what ails us - is absolutely ridiculous.

Yes, but the "trade Fisher" scenario is my answer so far to the "one of these contracts has to go" puzzle. He is cap hit is over 50% of Spezza or Heater's while his production is 33%ish.

If not trading any of the hardworkers away is your ideal, who goes?

Heatley.

Got it. Ok, at this point Heater is struggling so I get where you're coming from. But I don't have the balls to deal him, since I figure he'll catch fire wherever he goes, or here again if we get a real PMD.

Oh he will catch fire wherever he goes, but he absolutely will bring in the greatest return for this team. Obviously his NTC Diddle us nicely and limits our trading partners, but the return would still be very nice.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

cash wrote:Am I the excuseinator?

No. Mike Fisher is. And Goodie Wilson.

Is he big on excuses? I'm not sure I've noticed that?

cash wrote:Oh he will catch fire wherever he goes, but he absolutely will bring in the greatest return for this team. Obviously his NTC Diddle us nicely and limits our trading partners, but the return would still be very nice.

Yes, Heater would bring in the best return, period.

cash wrote:

Mojo wrote:

cash wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:
Again, you dont need to get rid of Spezza if you can get rid of Heatley, but one of the two have to go. If you;re a Spezza lover, better hope Heatley waives his NTC.

Here's hoping *crosses fingers, legs, arms, toes, eyes...*

This talk of waiting it out with Heatley is exactly how teams lose value for their players. The simple fact is that Heatley is too slow for the new NHL. He will always be able to put points up, but he will always be a liability.
If it wasn't for his damn NTC, I would trade him so fast his head would spin.
(And much like Redden - and even more so - he would find success somewhere else)

This has to be one of the most ridiculous statements I have seen in a while. Heatley has been doing pretty well in the "new NHL". He may not be the fastest skater, but he does what he gets payed for, putting up the points.

I haven't gone through every player, but from what I can tell he is third in goals since the "new NHL" started three and half years ago. Ovechkin has 190 goals and is +42, Kovalchuk has 160 goals and is -32, Heatley has 157 goals and is +93, Lecavalier has 143 goals and is -11, and Iginla has 142 goals and is +44.

Heatley may not have Havlat speed, but is has been doing alright over the past three and a half seasons.

The new NHL has evolved. What you say about the past is true, but that doesn't change the fact that his pattern of poor performance followed by point outbursts, within individual games, isn't so. It also doesn't change the fact that he's slow as Diddle. And is a virtual non-threat when he plays this predictable, one-dimensional game.

Guys with that many goals don't have "point outbursts" they have slumps.

Mojo wrote:

cash wrote:

Mojo wrote:

cash wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:
Again, you dont need to get rid of Spezza if you can get rid of Heatley, but one of the two have to go. If you;re a Spezza lover, better hope Heatley waives his NTC.

Here's hoping *crosses fingers, legs, arms, toes, eyes...*

This talk of waiting it out with Heatley is exactly how teams lose value for their players. The simple fact is that Heatley is too slow for the new NHL. He will always be able to put points up, but he will always be a liability.
If it wasn't for his damn NTC, I would trade him so fast his head would spin.
(And much like Redden - and even more so - he would find success somewhere else)

This has to be one of the most ridiculous statements I have seen in a while. Heatley has been doing pretty well in the "new NHL". He may not be the fastest skater, but he does what he gets payed for, putting up the points.

I haven't gone through every player, but from what I can tell he is third in goals since the "new NHL" started three and half years ago. Ovechkin has 190 goals and is +42, Kovalchuk has 160 goals and is -32, Heatley has 157 goals and is +93, Lecavalier has 143 goals and is -11, and Iginla has 142 goals and is +44.

Heatley may not have Havlat speed, but is has been doing alright over the past three and a half seasons.

The new NHL has evolved. What you say about the past is true, but that doesn't change the fact that his pattern of poor performance followed by point outbursts, within individual games, isn't so. It also doesn't change the fact that he's slow as Diddle. And is a virtual non-threat when he plays this predictable, one-dimensional game.

Guys with that many goals don't have "point outbursts" they have slumps.

I'm talking about individual games: He plays like Dung, then he scores a few points. He does it 40 times a season and people talk about him as though he's a premier player. He is certainly a premier scorer (although he isn't acting like it) but he certainly is not a premier player.

One thing Spezza really needs is for somebody to help him improve back-checking technique. I get frustrated watching him coast back to the zone when the other team is rushing away, but every time he does try vehemently to check he seems to get a penalty for it and we yell at him for that.

Maybe I'm being optimistic, but I think he could become a much better defensive player if someone with more defensive savvy could mentor him in that regard. Maybe bring in a guy like Sami Pahlsson or Jere Lehtinen in the off-season.