Spezza's Maturing

good point Seaway. I suppose in a way, assuming Murray remains at the helm, I'm comforted slightly to know that he does not operate in a knee-jerk kind of way; meaning he won't make a move for the sake of making one because flip-flopping fans demand one.

Cronenbergfan wrote:good point Seaway. I suppose in a way, assuming Murray remains at the helm, I'm comforted slightly to know that he does not operate in a knee-jerk kind of way; meaning he won't make a move for the sake of making one because flip-flopping fans demand one.

No. But the owner probably will because the flip-flopping fans will not buy tickets. Mark my words.

Did I fall asleep for like........A YEAR?!

Since when has Spezza become this saint that overnight has you all changing your minds and anointing him king of this team.

Jebus! No one ever said he was not a talented player capable of potting a lot of goals, not once. There is a reason he got a multi-year, multi-million contract.

How quickly you forget the behind the back passes leading to rushes the other way, the lack of defensive responsibility.

Sorry for going off a little, but I can't believe this actually deserves a whole thread on its own

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Cronenbergfan wrote:good point Seaway. I suppose in a way, assuming Murray remains at the helm, I'm comforted slightly to know that he does not operate in a knee-jerk kind of way; meaning he won't make a move for the sake of making one because flip-flopping fans demand one.

No. But the owner probably will because the flip-flopping fans will not buy tickets. Mark my words.

Ah, you beat me to my next point.

My fear is Melnyk may make a knee-jerk move and set the team back even further (YES, it's possible for the team to be even further back in terms of returning to contender status believe it or not) and quite frankly, you can be a passionate hockey lover as all of us are, but does an owner truly have a or THE right to pry into what should be a GM's area of expertise, even if the team is his and his investment?!

I'm serious, I'm asking the philosophical question because off-hand, I do not have a concrete answer.

beedub wrote:Did I fall asleep for like........A YEAR?!

Since when has Spezza become this saint that overnight has you all changing your minds and anointing him king of this team.

Jebus! No one ever said he was not a talented player capable of potting a lot of goals, not once. There is a reason he got a multi-year, multi-million contract.

How quickly you forget the behind the back passes leading to rushes the other way, the lack of defensive responsibility.

Sorry for going off a little, but I can't believe this actually deserves a whole thread on its own

Dude, I totally understand where you're coming from and quite honestly, I chalk this thread up to a or ANY devoted Sens fan trying to find ANY crumbs of a positive from their play of late. I am trepidatious about moving Spezza because #1 90 pt. centremen don't grow on trees, so the deal would have to be a doozy in my view, but if the stars aligned perfectly, don't get me wrong I'd make that deal.

beedub wrote:Did I fall asleep for like........A YEAR?!

Since when has Spezza become this saint that overnight has you all changing your minds and anointing him king of this team.

Jebus! No one ever said he was not a talented player capable of potting a lot of goals, not once. There is a reason he got a multi-year, multi-million contract.

How quickly you forget the behind the back passes leading to rushes the other way, the lack of defensive responsibility.

Sorry for going off a little, but I can't believe this actually deserves a whole thread on its own

I think it's ironic that he thinks he's limiting turn overs at key points in the game. The fact is he gives the puck away in the OFFENSIVE zone at the most desperate of times, which is pretty much all the time at the rate this team is going.

The "inspired" efforts are too few and far between to merit any pats on the back. Appreciate the offensive production because that's where it begins and ends with Spezza, unfortunately. And he's no spring chicken by today's NHL standards either.

beedub wrote:Did I fall asleep for like........A YEAR?!

Since when has Spezza become this saint that overnight has you all changing your minds and anointing him king of this team.

Jebus! No one ever said he was not a talented player capable of potting a lot of goals, not once. There is a reason he got a multi-year, multi-million contract.

How quickly you forget the behind the back passes leading to rushes the other way, the lack of defensive responsibility.

Sorry for going off a little, but I can't believe this actually deserves a whole thread on its own

If Heatley and Alfredsson could hit the broad side of a barn, Spezza would be player of the week with around 15 points in 7 games. He's been the straw that's at least getting this team back to a competitive level.

Alfredsson is the king of this team - last night he showed it in the 2nd and 3rd periods, but still, having Spezza step up and show some pride, not to mention show that he finally gets what Hartsburg is preaching, is not only thread worthy, it's the only thing in the Diddle season worth talking about.

Not to mention that it increases his trade value if Murray decides to go that route. So either way, this is a big, big thing. He needs to continue though, needs to compete for the rest of the year and for the rest of his contract. So...one step and one thread at a time.

beedub wrote:Did I fall asleep for like........A YEAR?!

Since when has Spezza become this saint that overnight has you all changing your minds and anointing him king of this team.

Jebus! No one ever said he was not a talented player capable of potting a lot of goals, not once. There is a reason he got a multi-year, multi-million contract.

How quickly you forget the behind the back passes leading to rushes the other way, the lack of defensive responsibility.

Sorry for going off a little, but I can't believe this actually deserves a whole thread on its own

Please don't take offence to this, but all star players have giveaways that result in what your describing by Spezza. I watch many games and try watch the other teams just as much as my Sens and can assure you, I've even seen Crosby and Ovechikin give bad passes and have it result in a goal the other way and a loss for the team.

Too many Sens fans just want to make deals for the sake of making deals. If I were Murray, I would stay status quo for this year and try add some pieces in the off-season.

MArk my words though. If Spezza was traded (which I know for certain, he won't be) we would all regret it.

On anothe note: Man was I impressed with KArlsson live. What a talent this kid will be.

jamvan wrote:Please don't take offence to this, but all star players have giveaways that result in what your describing by Spezza. I watch many games and try watch the other teams just as much as my Sens and can assure you, I've even seen Crosby and Ovechikin give bad passes and have it result in a goal the other way and a loss for the team.

Too many Sens fans just want to make deals for the sake of making deals. If I were Murray, I would stay status quo for this year and try add some pieces in the off-season.

MArk my words though. If Spezza was traded (which I know for certain, he won't be) we would all regret it.

On anothe note: Man was I impressed with KArlsson live. What a talent this kid will be.

The only question I have right now, literally, the only concern is: can we build this team around the four high paid forwards we have? 24 million for Spezza, Heatley, Fisher and Alfredsson is pretty much half the cap space right there.

Otherwise, it's a slam dunk right now. No way we're moving Spezza. Mike Brophy is probably one of the, if not the most respected hockey minds in the world - and he flat out said the Sens would be unbelievably stupid to trade Spezza. Like, end of story.

Unless a team loses their minds and offers like...Filatov, Brassard and a 1st, there's just no way to justify doing it. Because, any way you slice it, there will be another young player coming up - probably a high pick for the Sens, maybe even an elite player like Tavares or Hedman - and they start at 4 million dollars now that there's no rookie bonus reprieve. START at 4 million. Then when the 3 years are up, they're looking for 8, 9, 10 million. I'm sorry, I don't see where we're that much better off personally. I want to add MSP really badly, Cowen is growing on me and try to gun for a championship in 3 years. That's the perfect world.

Otherwise, we'll end up like the Bruins, where if they don't win this year, they might have a chance next year, maybe...then their team will be dismantled.

jamvan wrote:

beedub wrote:Did I fall asleep for like........A YEAR?!

Since when has Spezza become this saint that overnight has you all changing your minds and anointing him king of this team.

Jebus! No one ever said he was not a talented player capable of potting a lot of goals, not once. There is a reason he got a multi-year, multi-million contract.

How quickly you forget the behind the back passes leading to rushes the other way, the lack of defensive responsibility.

Sorry for going off a little, but I can't believe this actually deserves a whole thread on its own

Please don't take offence to this, but all star players have giveaways that result in what your describing by Spezza. I watch many games and try watch the other teams just as much as my Sens and can assure you, I've even seen Crosby and Ovechikin give bad passes and have it result in a goal the other way and a loss for the team.

Too many Sens fans just want to make deals for the sake of making deals. If I were Murray, I would stay status quo for this year and try add some pieces in the off-season.

MArk my words though. If Spezza was traded (which I know for certain, he won't be) we would all regret it.

On anothe note: Man was I impressed with KArlsson live. What a talent this kid will be.

Thanks for pointing this out. This is something that should be completely obvious to hockey fans, that all great players make mistakes, but for some reason ( I guess its all the losing) many Sens fans on this board are going way overboard in their assessment of Spezza. Trading Spezza now would be a bigger mistake than signing Redden over Chara.

504Heater wrote:

jamvan wrote:Please don't take offence to this, but all star players have giveaways that result in what your describing by Spezza. I watch many games and try watch the other teams just as much as my Sens and can assure you, I've even seen Crosby and Ovechikin give bad passes and have it result in a goal the other way and a loss for the team.

Too many Sens fans just want to make deals for the sake of making deals. If I were Murray, I would stay status quo for this year and try add some pieces in the off-season.

MArk my words though. If Spezza was traded (which I know for certain, he won't be) we would all regret it.

On anothe note: Man was I impressed with KArlsson live. What a talent this kid will be.

The only question I have right now, literally, the only concern is: can we build this team around the four high paid forwards we have? 24 million for Spezza, Heatley, Fisher and Alfredsson is pretty much half the cap space right there.

Otherwise, it's a slam dunk right now. No way we're moving Spezza. Mike Brophy is probably one of the, if not the most respected hockey minds in the world - and he flat out said the Sens would be unbelievably stupid to trade Spezza. Like, end of story.

Unless a team loses their minds and offers like...Filatov, Brassard and a 1st, there's just no way to justify doing it. Because, any way you slice it, there will be another young player coming up - probably a high pick for the Sens, maybe even an elite player like Tavares or Hedman - and they start at 4 million dollars now that there's no rookie bonus reprieve. START at 4 million. Then when the 3 years are up, they're looking for 8, 9, 10 million. I'm sorry, I don't see where we're that much better off personally. I want to add MSP really badly, Cowen is growing on me and try to gun for a championship in 3 years. That's the perfect world.

Otherwise, we'll end up like the Bruins, where if they don't win this year, they might have a chance next year, maybe...then their team will be dismantled.

I haven't heard this about rookie contracts. Do you have a reference I can check out?

Mojo wrote:
I haven't heard this about rookie contracts. Do you have a reference I can check out?

It must be in the CBA, I haven't checked the actual ruling, but I do know that this might be the cause of a meltdown and strike/lockout.

Look at what Doughty is making. It's crazy:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=LA

It's just not worth it to draft high - unless you have $$ coming out of your arse.

504Heater wrote:

Mojo wrote:
I haven't heard this about rookie contracts. Do you have a reference I can check out?

It must be in the CBA, I haven't checked the actual ruling, but I do know that this might be the cause of a meltdown and strike/lockout.

Look at what Doughty is making. It's crazy:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=LA

It's just not worth it to draft high - unless you have $$ coming out of your arse.

His salary is actually only $875,000. The cap hit there ($3,475,000) includes all bonuses due to this being a final year of the CBA. Not sure if he'd make all the bonuses... so it's a bit deceiving.

shabbs wrote:

504Heater wrote:

Mojo wrote:
I haven't heard this about rookie contracts. Do you have a reference I can check out?

It must be in the CBA, I haven't checked the actual ruling, but I do know that this might be the cause of a meltdown and strike/lockout.

Look at what Doughty is making. It's crazy:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=LA

It's just not worth it to draft high - unless you have $$ coming out of your arse.

His salary is actually only $875,000. The cap hit there ($3,475,000) includes all bonuses due to this being a final year of the CBA. Not sure if he'd make all the bonuses... so it's a bit deceiving.

What? The bonuses have been kicking in for 2 years now. There's some kind of issue where the CBA allowed for rookies to collect their bonuses against the cap. I'd have to do more research into it, but I think basically a top 5 pick gets an enormous bonus for playing in the NHL.

504Heater wrote:

shabbs wrote:

504Heater wrote:

Mojo wrote:
I haven't heard this about rookie contracts. Do you have a reference I can check out?

It must be in the CBA, I haven't checked the actual ruling, but I do know that this might be the cause of a meltdown and strike/lockout.

Look at what Doughty is making. It's crazy:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=LA

It's just not worth it to draft high - unless you have $$ coming out of your arse.

His salary is actually only $875,000. The cap hit there ($3,475,000) includes all bonuses due to this being a final year of the CBA. Not sure if he'd make all the bonuses... so it's a bit deceiving.

What? The bonuses have been kicking in for 2 years now. There's some kind of issue where the CBA allowed for rookies to collect their bonuses against the cap. I'd have to do more research into it, but I think basically a top 5 pick gets an enormous bonus for playing in the NHL.

Since bonus awards can't be awarded until the end of the season, normally that money and cap space is factored in then. But, since there was the potential for a retooling of the bargaining agreement after this year, all bonus awards had to be factored into the cap before the season started. Since it is unlikely that they will change the agreement, this won't happen next year. If you haven't seen anything indicating otherwise, I would assume that the rookie contracts are the same as they have been since the lockout.

Mojo wrote:
Since bonus awards can't be awarded until the end of the season, normally that money and cap space is factored in then. But, since there was the potential for a retooling of the bargaining agreement after this year, all bonus awards had to be factored into the cap before the season started. Since it is unlikely that they will change the agreement, this won't happen next year. If you haven't seen anything indicating otherwise, I would assume that the rookie contracts are the same as they have been since the lockout.

Wasn't Crosby, Malkin and Ovechkin all making 8 million last year (against the cap)? I'll confess to not understanding what the heck is going on. Lee making 1.3 is baffling.

Take this for what it's worth (and going back to the original topic of this post) but here is reference to Spezza's worth.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/22113-Fantasy-Mailbag-Lightning-in-a-bottle.html

"Take the Spezza deal. I still believe his upside in the NHL is higher than anyone else in the league, save for the three players currently atop the scoring race. Spezza will pay off for you next year."

The fact that it is actually answering a fantasy question is irrelevant.

Spezza is a keeper. The only possible reason I would ever trade him is due to the money tied up between our four big money forwards.

As for his play, it's only getting better. He was the only contributor yesterday against the Sabres. He's trying to make it happen. He's putting in 2 way effort beyond anything he's done in previous seasons. He doesn't have dmen getting him the puck. His linemates haven't been red hot.

In other words he's producing the most consistent, 2 way effort I've ever seen from him despite our teams terrible performance this season. If that's not enough to keep him around what is?