Pat Quinn the new coach AND GM of the Sens?

Cronenbergfan wrote:I can't see Murray or Hartsburg being ousted just yet. If there is NO official direction announced and next year is a carbon-copy of the past 2, then it's so long...

The official direction is top-four finish. While I think even Melnyk realizes that is not an achievable goal, the expectation is there for a fairly significant turnaround. What would he have to pay to fire Murray and Hartsburg, anyway? Cap or no cap, a million bucks is still no chump change.

wprager wrote:Hmm, I never thought of Quinn as having an ego.

OK. Let's just say he knows that the coach is the guy who runs the team and he knows how to establish that relationship with the players.

As for Melnyk, I doubt that he wants to eat any contracts, player or management. But he's already getting a taste of the fans low tolerance for mediocrity, I believe, and that hurts the bottom line more than a couple of management contracts.

wprager wrote:Hmm, I never thought of Quinn as having an ego. Not any more than any number of people involved in this league, anyway. What he did do very well is deflect attention from his players, very often by saying outrageous things in his pressers. Sure, you could interpret that as wanting the spotlight and, hence, a big ego, but I think you should seriously consider that a Master's Level tactic in keeping the attention away from his players.

If he was here last year, I'm not sure anyone would even know what Emery was driving.

Good point. One thing Quinn has always been good at is taking the heat off the players by drawing it to himself. I remember saying to myself many, many times during his Leafs tenure, "What a whiner!"

504Heater wrote:

hemlock wrote:Agreed with both of you. His GM record is suspect. I don't know though if I like the idea of a mini rebuild. Who stays and who goes? Let's face facts here, we aren't getting much in the way of return for guys like Neil and Kelly. Vermette may fetch us something decent, but I don't think that really gets us much further ahead.

I think if rebuild is the option Melnyk chooses, he'll have to cut into the core to do it right, ie. Phillips, Fisher, Spezza

In the past I have been critical on Quinn's approach to using younger players (unless he's had no choice due to injury), but I really like how he's run this team at the WJC. He's made some really smart decisions, like double-shifting Tavares to get the team going after falling behind.

I think you're going to be shocked at what Neil's value is. Now that I've seen Fisher and Foligno with him, I would love to re-sign him for the same as Ruutu, but if we move him, he's absolutely invaluable to a team heading to the playoffs. Rugged, hard-checking, can fight. He needs to be consistent on hitting every shift and forechecking hard, but the new Neil we've seen recently is a tougher to play against, smarter player.

I bet we get a real nice pick, player or prospect for him.

As for Quinn, I like him as Ottawa's coach, but not as GM. I laughed outloud when Pierre called him a smart coach for double shifting Tavares. Hmmm...who should I double shift? The best junior player in the world or some other guy....tough one.

We'll see with Neil I suppose. That's the thing for me though with him, inconsistency. He isn't scoring as much as previous years, and even though you could say that about most of the players this season, his season last year was craptacular. His value will be quite high at the deadline, but I certainly don't believe that he is fetching us a 1st or a blue chipper.

Sure the decision to double shift Tavares is a no-brainer, but it's not necessarily the easiest decision to make when you have that much talent to work with. The thing that I've noitced with Quinn is that previous to this tournament I always seen him as a type of coach that caters to the vets. Several young guys under Quinn never flourished during his tenure there. Simply because he never gave them the opportunity, or not enough of one. Obviously this tournament is different, being all youth, but he's handled them well and has them in a prime position to play for the gold again. Team Canada was certainly no shoo-in to win this thing with Sweden and the US being so strong, but he has that team clicking.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

wprager wrote:Hmm, I never thought of Quinn as having an ego.

OK. Let's just say he knows that the coach is the guy who runs the team and he knows how to establish that relationship with the players.

As for Melnyk, I doubt that he wants to eat any contracts, player or management. But he's already getting a taste of the fans low tolerance for mediocrity, I believe, and that hurts the bottom line more than a couple of management contracts.

Not only that, but Melnyk is a passionate hockey fan, and I think in the end, despite his prediction of a turnaround will soon see this season for what it is - a wash. Whether or not that prompts him to initiate a rebuild remains to be see though. I for one don't want to see him write this season off and try to fix everything through free agency next season. That's a page right out of the Leafs playbook.

Quinn - ego? He brought his daughter into the team photo for Canada's Olympic team in 2002.

Quinn v. Murray would be fun to watch. It will never happen.

hemlock wrote:
We'll see with Neil I suppose. That's the thing for me though with him, inconsistency. He isn't scoring as much as previous years, and even though you could say that about most of the players this season, his season last year was craptacular. His value will be quite high at the deadline, but I certainly don't believe that he is fetching us a 1st or a blue chipper.

No, not a 1st, but I could see a 2nd or a prospect in the same pool as a Regin. Neil will be sought after for what he can bring in the playoffs. Chicago's doing well with Eager, but how much do you think they would love to add Neil. Ditto Detroit. Washington. A lot of teams kinda need Neil and Fisher right now - except for us...

I still maintain Fisher and Neil together are dynamite though, so the thought process should be to try to re-sign him to a contract similar to Ruutu's. Although I see him getting 2 million, so I doubt we'll be able to keep him.

504Heater wrote:

hemlock wrote:
We'll see with Neil I suppose. That's the thing for me though with him, inconsistency. He isn't scoring as much as previous years, and even though you could say that about most of the players this season, his season last year was craptacular. His value will be quite high at the deadline, but I certainly don't believe that he is fetching us a 1st or a blue chipper.

No, not a 1st, but I could see a 2nd or a prospect in the same pool as a Regin. Neil will be sought after for what he can bring in the playoffs. Chicago's doing well with Eager, but how much do you think they would love to add Neil. Ditto Detroit. Washington. A lot of teams kinda need Neil and Fisher right now - except for us...

I still maintain Fisher and Neil together are dynamite though, so the thought process should be to try to re-sign him to a contract similar to Ruutu's. Although I see him getting 2 million, so I doubt we'll be able to keep him.

At 2 million per, someone else can have him lol. I'd take Bass at a fraction of that. No he won't fight the heavyweights, but we don't really need that too often if at all.

I agree though that there could be several willing suitors for Neil.

hemlock wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

wprager wrote:Hmm, I never thought of Quinn as having an ego.

OK. Let's just say he knows that the coach is the guy who runs the team and he knows how to establish that relationship with the players.

As for Melnyk, I doubt that he wants to eat any contracts, player or management. But he's already getting a taste of the fans low tolerance for mediocrity, I believe, and that hurts the bottom line more than a couple of management contracts.

Not only that, but Melnyk is a passionate hockey fan, and I think in the end, despite his prediction of a turnaround will soon see this season for what it is - a wash. Whether or not that prompts him to initiate a rebuild remains to be see though. I for one don't want to see him write this season off and try to fix everything through free agency next season. That's a page right out of the Leafs playbook.

Melnyk is a wily operator. Is it possible that he is willing to let this season go (and has instructed Murray to do so) in order to snag a high pick?

It seems to me that Melnyk, who knows hockey fairly well, would have already done the math. He would know that it would take just short of a miracle for Ottawa to come fourth in the division, let alone the conference. He may be trying to placate the masses for just long enough to get to the trade deadline. Near deadline day, one mid-level player goes out (maybe Vermette or Fisher) - just enough to cause a buzz. Then we ride the wave for a while, until the end of the year (still sucking, of course), until it's clear that we are bottom five. At that point, the race for Tavares is on. And the buzz starts again. Tavares is a shoo-in for second line centre next year, Hedman is probably going to be a 3/4 starting defensman (on this team anyhow), and so on, so people will buy tickets to see whoever we draft.

Or have I been reading too many conspiracy novels?

Add:

With our second round pick, and the SJ first, that might be parlayed into a middle-range first as well; add in a prospect and we might end up with an early first rounder, no?

Could this ideally be something along the lines of a Crosby/Malkin scenario?

I LOVE the way you think Acrobat.
I have been thinking for a while now that something like the scenario you've presented could be in the works. Murray is probably still trying to deal away from dead-weight for picks and prospects.

Time will tell but I think this could very well happen; and you and I both ready WAY too many conspiracy theories and novels it seems. LOL

Acrobat wrote:

hemlock wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

wprager wrote:Hmm, I never thought of Quinn as having an ego.

OK. Let's just say he knows that the coach is the guy who runs the team and he knows how to establish that relationship with the players.

As for Melnyk, I doubt that he wants to eat any contracts, player or management. But he's already getting a taste of the fans low tolerance for mediocrity, I believe, and that hurts the bottom line more than a couple of management contracts.

Not only that, but Melnyk is a passionate hockey fan, and I think in the end, despite his prediction of a turnaround will soon see this season for what it is - a wash. Whether or not that prompts him to initiate a rebuild remains to be see though. I for one don't want to see him write this season off and try to fix everything through free agency next season. That's a page right out of the Leafs playbook.

Melnyk is a wily operator. Is it possible that he is willing to let this season go (and has instructed Murray to do so) in order to snag a high pick?

It seems to me that Melnyk, who knows hockey fairly well, would have already done the math. He would know that it would take just short of a miracle for Ottawa to come fourth in the division, let alone the conference. He may be trying to placate the masses for just long enough to get to the trade deadline. Near deadline day, one mid-level player goes out (maybe Vermette or Fisher) - just enough to cause a buzz. Then we ride the wave for a while, until the end of the year (still sucking, of course), until it's clear that we are bottom five. At that point, the race for Tavares is on. And the buzz starts again. Tavares is a shoo-in for second line centre next year, Hedman is probably going to be a 3/4 starting defensman (on this team anyhow), and so on, so people will buy tickets to see whoever we draft.

Or have I been reading too many conspiracy novels?

I agree, I said something along those lines a week or so ago....

I Like Quinn, but I don't want him here.

Quinn's not a coach one re-builds with (nor a GM).

I recognize the possibility for change after this WJHC experience, but he's never been good with young players.

[quote="Acrobat"][quote="hemlock"][quote="SeawaySensFan"][quote="wprager"]Hmm, I never thought of Quinn as having an ego. [/quote]

OK. Let's just say he knows that the coach is the guy who runs the team and he knows how to establish that relationship with the players.

As for Melnyk, I doubt that he wants to eat any contracts, player or management. [b]But he's already getting a taste of the fans low tolerance for mediocrity, I believe, and that hurts the bottom line more than a couple of management contracts.[/b][/quote]

Not only that, but Melnyk is a passionate hockey fan, and I think in the end, despite his prediction of a turnaround will soon see this season for what it is - a wash. Whether or not that prompts him to initiate a rebuild remains to be see though. I for one don't want to see him write this season off and try to fix everything through free agency next season. That's a page right out of the Leafs playbook.[/quote]

Melnyk is a wily operator. Is it possible that he is willing to let this season go (and has instructed Murray to do so) in order to snag a high pick?

It seems to me that Melnyk, who knows hockey fairly well, would have already done the math. He would know that it would take just short of a miracle for Ottawa to come fourth in the division, let alone the conference. He may be trying to placate the masses for just long enough to get to the trade deadline. Near deadline day, one mid-level player goes out (maybe Vermette or Fisher) - just enough to cause a buzz. Then we ride the wave for a while, until the end of the year (still sucking, of course), until it's clear that we are bottom five. At that point, the race for Tavares is on. And the buzz starts again. Tavares is a shoo-in for second line centre next year, Hedman is probably going to be a 3/4 starting defensman (on this team anyhow), and so on, so people will buy tickets to see whoever we draft.

Or have I been reading too many conspiracy novels?[/quote]

I think Murray is going to make a move to add more quality youth and add another 1st. I just hope we can get Kuba back soon so he can pick up where he left off as I suspect he could fetch us a 1st and a young player prospect. Heck if SJ was willing to do a 1st and Bernier why not have a simailar return for Kuba. I got think though that I think Murray probably won't make any real serious deals until closer to the deadline where he could start a bidding war for some of his players who could help a contender.

Well now that the WJC's are done, Quinn is out of a job once again, and the Sens are still crapping themselves on the ice instead of winning games, I think it would be a good move for Murray to make a change and get Quinn behind the bench in O-town. It is obvious by their play that the Senators skaters don't like what they are being told to do by Hartsburg. Whether its what they are being told to do, or who is telling them, or how he is telling them to do it, it is clear that this current formula is not going to work. I still belive that the players on this team make up a group that is capable of winning more games than they loose, if they play the way they are capable of playing. I don't think that Hartsburg has set a system in place that will allow the players to excell, and his somewhat limited NHL experience hasn't given him time for sufficient trial and error. There is zero time or patience for trial and error in Ottawa. Quinn has the experience working with superstars, grinders and youth - just what the doctor ordered in Ottawa - in my opinion.

I kid you not, I wake up every morning these days expecting to hear that the entire Senators management team and coaching staff - from soup to nuts - has been fired.

504Heater wrote:I kid you not, I wake up every morning these days expecting to hear that the entire Senators management team and coaching staff - from soup to nuts - has been fired.

Me too....except while the tournament was going on.

Did anyone notice that when the medals were being handed out Quinn did not make eye contact with Melnyk.

Maybe a tin foil hat theory, maybe not.