In Defence of Spezza

Tukker wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:

Tukker wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:

Tukker wrote:

504Heater wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:
Well if he doesnt get it then there is a problem. He is signed to the biggest contract in team history, he isnt producing, and he is not playing well. Who the hell would not question his play after signing a 7 year deal for almost 50 million dollars?!

The guy is dense and that statement basically shows exactly why he will never get it!

Then there's a problem with Alfie and Heatley and Fisher and Phillips and Volchenkov. Hell the whole team. But we have to focus on Spezza - always bashing. Media and fans alike. Over and over. Until finally he gets sick of and asks to be traded like Corvo (and how many others, we don't even know).

Ottawa fans better wake up and smell the coffee pretty soon. We're becoming more and more like Habs or Leafs fans - and I can't stand the idea of that happening.

has Volchie been that bad? I honestly hadn't noticed...

A train has been this teams best all around D all year. Been nothing short of rock solid and worth every cent he is paid, probably should be paid more.

being this team's best Dman isnt tough at this point

Ummm this team has allowed the least amount of goals in the league, so the D itself is actually pretty good and playing within its limitations.

the forwards have been playing better defensively, buying into Hartsy's system

Yup thats it, you nailed it. Just liek you nailed Leclaire being a top 5 goaltender, saying McDonald "sucks" based on nothing, and saying Chara "sucks" based on nothing again.

Neely4Life wrote:
Everyone has seen what Alfi does and can do, Heatley barly has the puck on that line, hardly ever! How much time does Heatley actually get with the puck with Spezza and Alfi on his line? If I had to guess less than 45 seconds a game, maybe 30, tops. Heatley has been reduced to waiting for a pass and trying to get open. Screw the creativity of Heatley, he doesnt get to show it!

Alfi shows game in and game out what he is made of, he hits guys that are bigger and stronger, he doesnt quit, no matter what the score is what time of the season it is, or what the circumstances are.

Becoming like Habs fans, wouldnt want expectations and demanding the best of our players, thats just unforgivable.

I dare anyone to tell me that Alfi doesnt always put 100% effort in and Spezza does. Spezza isnt even on the same planet as Alfi and comparing Spezza to Alfi is almost insulting the guy.

Pfft. Not buying that for a second. We've seen what Alfie can do, so he earns a reprieve from media and fan's negativity? Interesting. We've all seen what Spezza can do, why can't he earn the same reprieve.

Heatley doesn't touch the puck on that line? I've never heard a weaker excuse.

And if you want to be like Habs fans - which is unfortunately the way we're going - then expect not to see any UFAs here ever. Why would anyone bother coming here when they'll the Dung on all the time? What's the point? The pressure makes you better? Sure it does. I'll take Colorado's pressure any day of the week over this crazy black cloud of sadness here in Ottawa.

Remember when Heatley said he needed to get away from Ottawa and the negativity? Then he proceeded to rip it up in the Worlds? He was speaking directly to fans like you.

Neely4Life wrote:

Tukker wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:

Tukker wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:

Tukker wrote:

504Heater wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:
Well if he doesnt get it then there is a problem. He is signed to the biggest contract in team history, he isnt producing, and he is not playing well. Who the hell would not question his play after signing a 7 year deal for almost 50 million dollars?!

The guy is dense and that statement basically shows exactly why he will never get it!

Then there's a problem with Alfie and Heatley and Fisher and Phillips and Volchenkov. Hell the whole team. But we have to focus on Spezza - always bashing. Media and fans alike. Over and over. Until finally he gets sick of and asks to be traded like Corvo (and how many others, we don't even know).

Ottawa fans better wake up and smell the coffee pretty soon. We're becoming more and more like Habs or Leafs fans - and I can't stand the idea of that happening.

has Volchie been that bad? I honestly hadn't noticed...

A train has been this teams best all around D all year. Been nothing short of rock solid and worth every cent he is paid, probably should be paid more.

being this team's best Dman isnt tough at this point

Ummm this team has allowed the least amount of goals in the league, so the D itself is actually pretty good and playing within its limitations.

the forwards have been playing better defensively, buying into Hartsy's system

Yup thats it, you nailed it. Just liek you nailed Leclaire being a top 5 goaltender, saying McDonald "sucks" based on nothing, and saying Chara "sucks" based on nothing again.

1- I will always argue that leclair is a top 5 goalie. 2- I said compared to Spezza McDonald sucks. 3- I dont believe Chara is that special. He's a big guy with a shot, not much more.

504Heater wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:
Everyone has seen what Alfi does and can do, Heatley barly has the puck on that line, hardly ever! How much time does Heatley actually get with the puck with Spezza and Alfi on his line? If I had to guess less than 45 seconds a game, maybe 30, tops. Heatley has been reduced to waiting for a pass and trying to get open. Screw the creativity of Heatley, he doesnt get to show it!

Alfi shows game in and game out what he is made of, he hits guys that are bigger and stronger, he doesnt quit, no matter what the score is what time of the season it is, or what the circumstances are.

Becoming like Habs fans, wouldnt want expectations and demanding the best of our players, thats just unforgivable.

I dare anyone to tell me that Alfi doesnt always put 100% effort in and Spezza does. Spezza isnt even on the same planet as Alfi and comparing Spezza to Alfi is almost insulting the guy.

Pfft. Not buying that for a second. We've seen what Alfie can do, so he earns a reprieve from media and fan's negativity? Interesting. We've all seen what Spezza can do, why can't he earn the same reprieve.

Heatley doesn't touch the puck on that line? I've never heard a weaker excuse.

And if you want to be like Habs fans - which is unfortunately the way we're going - then expect not to see any UFAs here ever. Why would anyone bother coming here when they'll the Dung on all the time? What's the point? The pressure makes you better? Sure it does. I'll take Colorado's pressure any day of the week over this crazy black cloud of sadness here in Ottawa.

Remember when Heatley said he needed to get away from Ottawa and the negativity? Then he proceeded to rip it up in the Worlds? He was speaking directly to fans like you.

Fans like me that pay to go to every game eh... Fans like me pay their salaries.

Heatley doesnt touch the puck on that line because if he did the other two wouldnt be playing their games at all. There is 1 puck and 3 players on that line, Alfi and Spezza who both like to control the puck. If you actually dont see that then whats the point. Its not a weak excuse, its a fact!

anyone else tired of arguing with this guy?

Tukker wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:

Tukker wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:

Tukker wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:

Tukker wrote:

504Heater wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:
Well if he doesnt get it then there is a problem. He is signed to the biggest contract in team history, he isnt producing, and he is not playing well. Who the hell would not question his play after signing a 7 year deal for almost 50 million dollars?!

The guy is dense and that statement basically shows exactly why he will never get it!

Then there's a problem with Alfie and Heatley and Fisher and Phillips and Volchenkov. Hell the whole team. But we have to focus on Spezza - always bashing. Media and fans alike. Over and over. Until finally he gets sick of and asks to be traded like Corvo (and how many others, we don't even know).

Ottawa fans better wake up and smell the coffee pretty soon. We're becoming more and more like Habs or Leafs fans - and I can't stand the idea of that happening.

has Volchie been that bad? I honestly hadn't noticed...

A train has been this teams best all around D all year. Been nothing short of rock solid and worth every cent he is paid, probably should be paid more.

being this team's best Dman isnt tough at this point

Ummm this team has allowed the least amount of goals in the league, so the D itself is actually pretty good and playing within its limitations.

the forwards have been playing better defensively, buying into Hartsy's system

Yup thats it, you nailed it. Just liek you nailed Leclaire being a top 5 goaltender, saying McDonald "sucks" based on nothing, and saying Chara "sucks" based on nothing again.

1- I will always argue that leclair is a top 5 goalie. 2- I said compared to Spezza McDonald sucks. 3- I dont believe Chara is that special. He's a big guy with a shot, not much more.

lol, yup, thats all Chara is hahaha. Leclaire is a top 5 goalies based on what? McDonald isnt that far behind Spezza in terms of production and is a more complete player. I guess anyone that doesnt score at the pace of Spezza, well last year and in the past, sucks eh. You didnt even know who I was talking about until I had to explain it to you.

Tukker wrote:anyone else tired of arguing with this guy?

Hey, Im not argueing anything, I give my opinons and they people either say "you're wrong, or you're write" I really wouldnt expect you espcially to actually understand what a debate is.

Neely4Life wrote: You didnt even know who I was talking about until I had to explain it to you.

Ignorant and overconfident... what a lovely combination.

Tukker wrote:
Is there a point at all to your little question?

is there an answer to that little question? [/quote]

Yes, there is. You said something inherently idiotic and I'm calling you on it. You said he never got anything except by reputation. It took a lot more than reputation to make it to the NHL, much less to go top-two. It took a lot more than reputation to get a $7M contract, long-term.

Neely4Life wrote:

504Heater wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:
Well if he doesnt get it then there is a problem. He is signed to the biggest contract in team history, he isnt producing, and he is not playing well. Who the hell would not question his play after signing a 7 year deal for almost 50 million dollars?!

The guy is dense and that statement basically shows exactly why he will never get it!

Then there's a problem with Alfie and Heatley and Fisher and Phillips and Volchenkov. Hell the whole team. But we have to focus on Spezza - always bashing. Media and fans alike. Over and over. Until finally he gets sick of and asks to be traded like Corvo (and how many others, we don't even know).

Ottawa fans better wake up and smell the coffee pretty soon. We're becoming more and more like Habs or Leafs fans - and I can't stand the idea of that happening.

Everyone has seen what Alfi does and can do, Heatley barly has the puck on that line, hardly ever! How much time does Heatley actually get with the puck with Spezza and Alfi on his line? If I had to guess less than 45 seconds a game, maybe 30, tops. Heatley has been reduced to waiting for a pass and trying to get open. Screw the creativity of Heatley, he doesnt get to show it!

Alfi shows game in and game out what he is made of, he hits guys that are bigger and stronger, he doesnt quit, no matter what the score is what time of the season it is, or what the circumstances are.

Becoming like Habs fans, wouldnt want expectations and demanding the best of our players, thats just unforgivable.

I dare anyone to tell me that Alfi doesnt always put 100% effort in and Spezza does. Spezza isnt even on the same planet as Alfi and comparing Spezza to Alfi is almost insulting the guy.

Time to re-check the Pominville goal in OT short handed PLayoffs 2006.

Neely4Life wrote:
Fans like me that pay to go to every game eh... Fans like me pay their salaries.

Heatley doesnt touch the puck on that line because if he did the other two wouldnt be playing their games at all. There is 1 puck and 3 players on that line, Alfi and Spezza who both like to control the puck. If you actually dont see that then whats the point. Its not a weak excuse, its a fact!

Doesn't matter if you pay their salaries. The building only holds 20,000 people. There's a finite number of people that can go - and there will always be people around to take your place.

The point was Dany Heatley made one of his few - perhaps his only - point about fans and Ottawa media right before heading to the Worlds and exploding for record numbers of points and MVP honours. Way too negative, no matter what, it affects our game to a degree.

The thinking is, people might listen and get the message.

He was wrong unfortunately.

wprager wrote:

Yes, there is. You said something inherently idiotic and I'm calling you on it. You said he never got anything except by reputation. It took a lot more than reputation to make it to the NHL, much less to go top-two. It took a lot more than reputation to get a $7M contract, long-term.

that wont work. trying to reason with him or using facts will only get you insulted or ignored. maybe nans should just go back to HB with the other trolls.

Neely4Life wrote:
Ummm this team has allowed the least amount of goals in the league, so the D itself is actually pretty good and playing within its limitations.

To be fair, Volchenkov has had a decent year. It's Phillips who has not been pulling his usual weight.

But as for the defense being top of the league, first, I don't think so, and second, they are a few games behind. They are 6th when normalized to the number of games played. Which is not bad, and considering their start (with Gerber in goal) they've probably been best in the league the last 10-15 games.

Minny has given up 6 fewer goals in the same number of games. Boston has given up 2 fewer having played two more games than we have.

504Heater wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:
Fans like me that pay to go to every game eh... Fans like me pay their salaries.

Heatley doesnt touch the puck on that line because if he did the other two wouldnt be playing their games at all. There is 1 puck and 3 players on that line, Alfi and Spezza who both like to control the puck. If you actually dont see that then whats the point. Its not a weak excuse, its a fact!

Doesn't matter if you pay their salaries. The building only holds 20,000 people. There's a finite number of people that can go - and there will always be people around to take your place.

The point was Dany Heatley made one of his few - perhaps his only - point about fans and Ottawa media right before heading to the Worlds and exploding for record numbers of points and MVP honours. Way too negative, no matter what, it affects our game to a degree.

The thinking is, people might listen and get the message.

He was wrong unfortunately.

Oh, I seriously doubt that someone is there to take my spot because there are still season tickets left for sale every year, and right now they cant even sell out a Leafs game.

Tukker wrote:anyone else tired of arguing with this guy?

Nah! I'm racking up posts, creeping up to Croney. Under 50 to go!!!

Haha, I love how everyone in defense of SPezza's piss poor play start asking about Alfi and Heatley. Yup, cant defend him lets blame the two international stars and captain.

Neely4Life wrote:

Tukker wrote:anyone else tired of arguing with this guy?

Hey, Im not argueing anything, I give my opinons and they people either say "you're wrong, or you're write" I really wouldnt expect you espcially to actually understand what a debate is.

I'd never say "you're write".

I'm a Spezza fan, but have been critical of him for a long time. I'm starting to get encouraged. Through his recent lack of production and lazy penalties I'm slowly seeing a side of him I thought would never exist. This isn't sarcasm, he's getting better.

He's playing harder on the puck, his reckless turnovers are subsiding, dumping the puck in(!?), and taking shots on goal when there isn't any great alternative option out there. It doesn't mean much if his production doesn't follow suit, but he has managed to get it going each previous season.

Sure, we could trade him to free up some of the money we have locked up at the forward position (Neely's point). The fact that we tied up so much at forward relative to defence is a valid one. We could trade Fisher instead (per Heater) but it's true that we won't get a comparable return nor will we free up as much space.

Many will feel that I am stretching it by saying that Spezza is showing signs of improving as an all around player in spite of a temporary lapse in scoring and discipline (Collar Up's point). It's a highly relative and subjective opionion. But I do think its true, so I don't feel like trading him yet.

Trading away a premier no.1 center scares the daylights out of me. The way I see it, if we trade him and we don't win, we're having this exact conversation in reverse, trying to get rid of our newest scapegoat in favor of a bonafide no. 1 center.

Yes, if you want to lose on a deal you can grab a PPG center from almost any team.

From one of my previous posts...Spezza had 1.21 Pts/G last year, seventh best of ALL players in the league, not just centers. Also tied for 6th in league scoring with Zetterberg and Lecavalier. I was shocked to discover that he was a +26! 12th best in the league. And he played in 76 games...