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GM Hockey » Ottawa Senators » GAME DAY: Ottawa Senators @ New York Islanders - 7:00pm Nov. 29th, 2008

GAME DAY: Ottawa Senators @ New York Islanders - 7:00pm Nov. 29th, 2008

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PTFlea
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PTFlea


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I would be really surprised if there isn't a trade made tonight, leaked tomorrow and announced Monday.

Man oh man, Brian Lee was the only guy capable of making an outlet pass tonight - and even that was few and far between.

Has it ever been more evident that the Sens were horribly cheap in the off-season when it came to their D?

LethalLehner


Sophomore
Sophomore

504Heater wrote:I would be really surprised if there isn't a trade made tonight, leaked tomorrow and announced Monday.

Man oh man, Brian Lee was the only guy capable of making an outlet pass tonight - and even that was few and far between.

Has it ever been more evident that the Sens were horribly cheap in the off-season when it came to their D?

Kind of like being hit by a transport. lol I agree. Trade done this weekend, news on Monday. Hopefully it is J-Bo.

dennycrane


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Is this team good enough to justify parting with future assets for J Bo?

If they are able to sign him, I say yes. But if this becomes nothing more than a rental, it will cost Murray his job.

The team missed Picard tonight from what little I saw/heard. I can't believe I just typed that. Picard has been good lately though.

PTFlea

PTFlea
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spezza rules! wrote:
Kind of like being hit by a transport. lol I agree. Trade done this weekend, news on Monday. Hopefully it is J-Bo.

I think we're gonna have to make due with someone like Aucoin and hopefully someone before the deadline who can put the puck in the net for line 2. But yes, Bow would be nice.

TheAvatar

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We are doomed

Guest


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dennycrane wrote:Is this team good enough to justify parting with future assets for J Bo?

If they are able to sign him, I say yes. But if this becomes nothing more than a rental, it will cost Murray his job.

The team missed Picard tonight from what little I saw/heard. I can't believe I just typed that. Picard has been good lately though.

Like most I wasn't sold on Picard early on. Good for him (likewise with Bell) for really working hard to better his defensive game.

If we do land a guy like J-Bo and Bell and Picard continue to progess, our D problem will be a thing of the past.

On the bright side, with Karlsson and Wiercioch coming down the pipe in a couple of years, we are well on our way back to having a really dominant D corp again.

PTFlea

PTFlea
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dennycrane wrote:Is this team good enough to justify parting with future assets for J Bo?

That's a good question, probably not IMO.

But...there was a sequence when the Isles has the Sens D hemmed into their zone for what seemed like a good one minute. D kept losing battles, forwards lost battles, they almost scored, then Alfie muscled the Islander guy off the puck, turned around and led a full speed attack up the ice.

With someone like Bouwmeester on a team that can be very creative offensively, I think that changes the dynamics of this team almost completely.

But...without a contract, we'd be crazy to give too much up for him. So we're back at square one. *sigh*.

Guest


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This team isnt even close to good enough to compete against the top teams. Like I said, if the biggest need is a puck moving D man and we are winning and losing games 2-1, 3-2, we can do all that without 25 million committed to 4 players up front.

Serious change is coming, whether you love Spezza or hate him, all this considered he is the logical guy to go. He wont be dealt anytime soon (I dont think) but come trade deadline or the draft and this team misses the playoffs (and tanks on top of that) he is gonezo.

Guest


Guest

Neely4Life wrote:This team isnt even close to good enough to compete against the top teams. Like I said, if the biggest need is a puck moving D man and we are winning and losing games 2-1, 3-2, we can do all that without 25 million committed to 4 players up front.

Serious change is coming, whether you love Spezza or hate him, all this considered he is the logical guy to go. He wont be dealt anytime soon (I dont think) but come trade deadline or the draft and this team misses the playoffs (and tanks on top of that) he is gonezo.

Despite what people think of Spezza either way, Murray considers (or did when he signed him) as part of the core. Personally I think he tries to trade Fisher before Spezza at this point. Trading Spezza now looks like a panic move big time.

I do agree though that if Spezza doesn't show marked improvement towards becoming a better all around player game in and game out, by the end of this season, he will be traded.

This team cannot afford to spend that much money on 4 guys. Plain and simple. Tampa was starting to figure that out last year when they found a sucker taker for Richards. Of course, we all know what happened next, but that's beside the point.

Guest


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hemlock34 wrote:
Neely4Life wrote:This team isnt even close to good enough to compete against the top teams. Like I said, if the biggest need is a puck moving D man and we are winning and losing games 2-1, 3-2, we can do all that without 25 million committed to 4 players up front.

Serious change is coming, whether you love Spezza or hate him, all this considered he is the logical guy to go. He wont be dealt anytime soon (I dont think) but come trade deadline or the draft and this team misses the playoffs (and tanks on top of that) he is gonezo.

Despite what people think of Spezza either way, Murray considers (or did when he signed him) as part of the core. Personally I think he tries to trade Fisher before Spezza at this point. Trading Spezza now looks like a panic move big time.

I do agree though that if Spezza doesn't show marked improvement towards becoming a better all around player game in and game out, by the end of this season, he will be traded.

This team cannot afford to spend that much money on 4 guys. Plain and simple. Tampa was starting to figure that out last year when they found a sucker taker for Richards. Of course, we all know what happened next, but that's beside the point.

Nono, I'm not saying trade Spezza now, never have been, but since the team locked up "its core" since all of the contracts have been signed, sealed, and delivered, they have been losing, its as simple as that.

Trading Spezza now would be stupid IMO because you cant maximize your return.

Murray may ask Fisher to waive his NMC but I doubt he will, and he defently isnt the problem and has been this teams best center the last month.

PTFlea

PTFlea
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hemlock34 wrote:
Despite what people think of Spezza either way, Murray considers (or did when he signed him) as part of the core. Personally I think he tries to trade Fisher before Spezza at this point. Trading Spezza now looks like a panic move big time.

I do agree though that if Spezza doesn't show marked improvement towards becoming a better all around player game in and game out, by the end of this season, he will be traded.

This team cannot afford to spend that much money on 4 guys. Plain and simple. Tampa was starting to figure that out last year when they found a sucker taker for Richards. Of course, we all know what happened next, but that's beside the point.

I still don't think that's the answer personally. Maybe if the package is right, but a team would have to go mad and offer an awe-inspiring deal. I think you build around those 4 much more than you build around Phillips and Volchenkov. Pick one or the other of these two and completely give the D a face-lift.

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Neely4Life wrote:
hemlock34 wrote:
Neely4Life wrote:This team isnt even close to good enough to compete against the top teams. Like I said, if the biggest need is a puck moving D man and we are winning and losing games 2-1, 3-2, we can do all that without 25 million committed to 4 players up front.

Serious change is coming, whether you love Spezza or hate him, all this considered he is the logical guy to go. He wont be dealt anytime soon (I dont think) but come trade deadline or the draft and this team misses the playoffs (and tanks on top of that) he is gonezo.

Despite what people think of Spezza either way, Murray considers (or did when he signed him) as part of the core. Personally I think he tries to trade Fisher before Spezza at this point. Trading Spezza now looks like a panic move big time.

I do agree though that if Spezza doesn't show marked improvement towards becoming a better all around player game in and game out, by the end of this season, he will be traded.

This team cannot afford to spend that much money on 4 guys. Plain and simple. Tampa was starting to figure that out last year when they found a sucker taker for Richards. Of course, we all know what happened next, but that's beside the point.

Nono, I'm not saying trade Spezza now, never have been, but since the team locked up "its core" since all of the contracts have been signed, sealed, and delivered, they have been losing, its as simple as that.

Trading Spezza now would be stupid IMO because you cant maximize your return.

Murray may ask Fisher to waive his NMC but I doubt he will, and he defently isnt the problem and has been this teams best center the last month.

Agreed, but it's like we've been saying. Something has to give here. This team cannot pay all these forwards big money. It has to be spread around. Fisher has been alot better recently, but for the production he brings and the fact that he is injured alot, makes his cap hit tough to swallow. I'm all about the intangibles and game he brings, but we've got enough of that now, and with Bass and Z. Smith coming up, we'll have plenty. I really think Z. Smith could replace Fisher in the near future. His money coming off the books goes a long way to getting this team's payroll more balanced.

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504Heater wrote:
hemlock34 wrote:
Despite what people think of Spezza either way, Murray considers (or did when he signed him) as part of the core. Personally I think he tries to trade Fisher before Spezza at this point. Trading Spezza now looks like a panic move big time.

I do agree though that if Spezza doesn't show marked improvement towards becoming a better all around player game in and game out, by the end of this season, he will be traded.

This team cannot afford to spend that much money on 4 guys. Plain and simple. Tampa was starting to figure that out last year when they found a sucker taker for Richards. Of course, we all know what happened next, but that's beside the point.

With what money? Volchankov is going to get 4 plus mil his next contract, Phillips will be looking to win a cup, Auld will be up for a raise, and if we want any chance at winning in the near future we need to seriously invest in some D.

25 mil in 4 players, to have a shot at a cup, you need at least 15 mil invested in your D, thats 40 milion, and even assuming the cap stays the same, you still need to have about 11-13 more players including goalies for 15 mil. Good luck.

I still don't think that's the answer personally. Maybe if the package is right, but a team would have to go mad and offer an awe-inspiring deal. I think you build around those 4 much more than you build around Phillips and Volchenkov. Pick one or the other of these two and completely give the D a face-lift.

Guest


Guest

Neely4Life wrote:
504Heater wrote:
hemlock34 wrote:
Despite what people think of Spezza either way, Murray considers (or did when he signed him) as part of the core. Personally I think he tries to trade Fisher before Spezza at this point. Trading Spezza now looks like a panic move big time.

I do agree though that if Spezza doesn't show marked improvement towards becoming a better all around player game in and game out, by the end of this season, he will be traded.

This team cannot afford to spend that much money on 4 guys. Plain and simple. Tampa was starting to figure that out last year when they found a sucker taker for Richards. Of course, we all know what happened next, but that's beside the point.

With what money? Volchankov is going to get 4 plus mil his next contract, Phillips will be looking to win a cup, Auld will be up for a raise, and if we want any chance at winning in the near future we need to seriously invest in some D.

25 mil in 4 players, to have a shot at a cup, you need at least 15 mil invested in your D, thats 40 milion, and even assuming the cap stays the same, you still need to have about 11-13 more players including goalies for 15 mil. Good luck.

I still don't think that's the answer personally. Maybe if the package is right, but a team would have to go mad and offer an awe-inspiring deal. I think you build around those 4 much more than you build around Phillips and Volchenkov. Pick one or the other of these two and completely give the D a face-lift.

Oh no, I think you are misunderstanding me. I'm not saying keep Spezza and trade Fisher. I'm saying that he may choose to do that, because trading Spezza now, is basically admitting he screwed up giving Spezza that deal. That's why I say it looks like a panic move.

I'm all for Spezza's 7 coming off the books for the right return.

Guest


Guest

hemlock34 wrote:
Neely4Life wrote:
504Heater wrote:
hemlock34 wrote:
Despite what people think of Spezza either way, Murray considers (or did when he signed him) as part of the core. Personally I think he tries to trade Fisher before Spezza at this point. Trading Spezza now looks like a panic move big time.

I do agree though that if Spezza doesn't show marked improvement towards becoming a better all around player game in and game out, by the end of this season, he will be traded.

This team cannot afford to spend that much money on 4 guys. Plain and simple. Tampa was starting to figure that out last year when they found a sucker taker for Richards. Of course, we all know what happened next, but that's beside the point.

With what money? Volchankov is going to get 4 plus mil his next contract, Phillips will be looking to win a cup, Auld will be up for a raise, and if we want any chance at winning in the near future we need to seriously invest in some D.

25 mil in 4 players, to have a shot at a cup, you need at least 15 mil invested in your D, thats 40 milion, and even assuming the cap stays the same, you still need to have about 11-13 more players including goalies for 15 mil. Good luck.

I still don't think that's the answer personally. Maybe if the package is right, but a team would have to go mad and offer an awe-inspiring deal. I think you build around those 4 much more than you build around Phillips and Volchenkov. Pick one or the other of these two and completely give the D a face-lift.

Oh no, I think you are misunderstanding me. I'm not saying keep Spezza and trade Fisher. I'm saying that he may choose to do that, because trading Spezza now, is basically admitting he screwed up giving Spezza that deal. That's why I say it looks like a panic move.

I'm all for Spezza's 7 coming off the books for the right return.

My bad, but the finances dont add up, and teams better be getting prepared for a lower cap going forward otherwise it could get nasty.

Guest


Guest

According to everything I've heard, the cap for next year shouldn't fluctuate that much. It's the year following that we'll see a sharp decline, if at all.

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator

Hartsburg hasn't sat out Spezza (or any of our top guys, for that matter). Crap all you want on his play, but Heatley has been below average (for him and for $7.5M), and Phillips has been in a funk most of the season. What moves have been made this season?

1. Lee sent down.
2. Schubert sat down and removed from D.
3. Vermette promoted to the top line then demoted.
4. Alfie re-inserted on the top line.

I'm not going to mention roster moves necessitated by injuries or sending Zubov down (and not bringing him back up).

The Lee and Schubert moves were strong moves only as they affect the player involved. Neither one was a strong message to the team or to the team's big guns.

Only Vermette and Alfredsson's moves affected the top line, and let's face it, that was not a strong message.

Want a stronger message? Put Spezza on the third line like they did at the Worlds. Not strong enough? Sit him out for 2 games.

Take Phillips off the 2nd PP unit and replace him with a forward. Is Shannon ready to come back?

Reduce Vermette and Kelly's time to the PK and playing when we have a lead. Who knows, maybe with the top line stinking they feel the pressure to produce? Relax, take a seat. We need your magic on the PK. McAmmond and Donovan will certainly out-hustle them (at least for a stretch) and likely outscore them, too.

Speaking of Donovan and McAmmond, could it be the team missed those two last night? Or did we miss Picard? Let's face it, we were missing Picard, Neil, Donovan and McAmmond; we were taking (or being given?) too many penalties, and Auld was probably due for a break.

Yeah, all those are excuses but, let's face it, this is not a good enough team to overcome all those obstacles. Not even close.

It's time for some moves, but it's not time for panic moves. Any trade we do now we'll get fleeced. We haven't got a spare part that's playing well enough to generate interest, and I'm not in favor of losing prospects with all the high salaries and the cap crunch that's coming. And if we trade Spezza we'll get screwed.

TheAvatar

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WPrager,

That's a great analysis. I'm astonished to see how Picard has progressed. When he started out, we didn't know if he was going to make the team. He's gone from that to being quite impactful on this team.

I also strongly agree with your point that "Any trade we do now we'll get fleeced.". My only objection being that the commentators yesterday (they were clownish in every other aspect) were talking very highly of Vermette, calling him I think it was a premier 2-way forward in this league. I wonder if this sentiment is shared by many in the league.

As far as Spezza goes, dealing him would get us to the same point Boston sat after they traded Jumbo Joe. I am as annoyed as anyone with Spezza's new trend of taking lazy penalties but I strongly believe that his defensive game has improved; I'm just starting to wonder if the cost of this improvement was some of his offensive ooomph.

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