GAME DAY: Ottawa Senators @ New York Islanders - 7:00pm Nov. 29th, 2008

rooneypoo wrote:

cash wrote:

COLLAR UP wrote:At this point...I am very much open to the idea of considering trading Spezza at the dealine or draft this year...

not now...as the return will by shipoopy...but deadline deal or draft could score us a nice return...

I'm still pretty against it, even though he's the most aggravating player to watch on this team.
For those who feel that they would seriously consider trading him before his NTC kicks in: Would you rather trade him sooner than later? Or would you prefer to give him until June 2010 to prove his worth?
We've still got the rest of this season and all of next season to decide. Is it that important to send him elsewhere? Is he that detrimental to the team dynamic? Are people (and notable people, such as the coach of a local OHL team) right when they say that "we'll never win with Spezza on our team"??

I don't ask from a pov that will guarantee an argument one way or the other...I'm simply asking because I can't make up my mind...

I agree that we've got too much money up front, especially with the loonie falling, the economy going to crap, and the cap expected to stagnate or regress in the next 3 years.

I agree, too, that of the big-money contracts, Spezza is the logical choice -- Alfie is the heart and soul of the team, Heatley is a top-5 winger in the league (hands down), and Fisher has that NMC and might not be tradeable anyway with his new contract.

That Spezza is a superstar player who would command a lot of attention and a good return, I have no doubt. People can quote Clark and Wang 'till the cows come home, but when push comes to shove, there are plenty of GMs who will line up for a shot a Spezza.

The problem as I see it, however, is that there are very few people out there who could put together the kind of package we'd need. To trade Spezza, I expect that we'd want to shore up either or D or G, long-term, plus get a suitable replacement at C coming back to us, and perhaps a pick/prospect -- with the players being relatively young and with a few years on their deals, too, (or at least signed at the time of the deal) to make sure we don't lose them right away.

How many teams have a top 6 C to spare plus a #1 goalie OR a #1-2 D to offer? Would Legwand + Suter/Hamhuis (Weber being off-limits, I presume) from NAS cut it (8 or 6.5 mil)? How about Horcoff/Gagner/Cogliano + Gilbert from EDM (9.5 or 6.5mil)? Or M. Koivu + Zidlicky/Backstrom/Harding (Burns being off-limits, I presume) from MIN (about 7 mil max)? Or Brassard + Leclaire from CBJ (about 5 mil)?

I'm just not sure that I see many teams with the assets needed to move in return for Spezza. Most teams who'd want him, would want him because they only have one real top-6 C. Add in the demand for a young, signed, relatively inexpensive G/D, and that's a pretty tall order to fill. Trading Spezza only makes sense if we shore up at least one of our problem areas (G or D), with a replacement C included, for about the same cap hit that Spezza has right now ($7 mil). That won't be an easy demand for other teams to accommodate.

Tukker wrote:What about Columbus with Leclair and either Voracek or Filatov?

COLLAR UP wrote:

Just tossinjg this out for fun...as watching the sens right now isn't...lol...

To FLA: Spezza (7), Verm (2.763), Lee (1.25), Gerber(3.7) = Total (14.713)
To OTTAWA: Bouw(4.875), Vokoun(5.7), Weiss(3.1) = Total (13.675)

Keeping in mind...Gerbs will come off FLA books next year...and they don't want to lose Bouw for nothing...

Anderson has basically taken over as #1...so Vokoun could be had IMO...

trades like this are never done...but it looks good from both sides...

FLA could throw in Cory Murphy is they still want more slary off the books...he is 850K and another UFA...

crazy...obviously...but...fun yes...

rooneypoo wrote:

Tukker wrote:What about Columbus with Leclair and either Voracek or Filatov?

Neither guy is a centre, tho'.... and Filatov is nowhere near NHL ready. He's not even in the AHL yet.

rooneypoo wrote:

Tukker wrote:What about Columbus with Leclair and either Voracek or Filatov?

Neither guy is a centre, tho'.... and Filatov is nowhere near NHL ready. He's not even in the AHL yet.

Neely4Life wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

Tukker wrote:What about Columbus with Leclair and either Voracek or Filatov?

Neither guy is a centre, tho'.... and Filatov is nowhere near NHL ready. He's not even in the AHL yet.

Filitov has been in the AHL most of the year and has already played for Columbus at times this year.

rooneypoo wrote:

COLLAR UP wrote:

Just tossinjg this out for fun...as watching the sens right now isn't...lol...

To FLA: Spezza (7), Verm (2.763), Lee (1.25), Gerber(3.7) = Total (14.713)
To OTTAWA: Bouw(4.875), Vokoun(5.7), Weiss(3.1) = Total (13.675)

Keeping in mind...Gerbs will come off FLA books next year...and they don't want to lose Bouw for nothing...

Anderson has basically taken over as #1...so Vokoun could be had IMO...

trades like this are never done...but it looks good from both sides...

FLA could throw in Cory Murphy is they still want more slary off the books...he is 850K and another UFA...

crazy...obviously...but...fun yes...

I passed over FLA in the previous post because I'm pretty sure Martin will never trade for Spezza.

rooneypoo wrote:Ah, I see I'm a little mixed up. Filatov got *cleared* to play with the Sudbury Wolves (OHL) by the IIHF earlier this month, but CBJ management decided keep him with the Syracuse Crunch (AHL) anyway.

http://www.fantasysp.com/player/nhl/Nikita_Filatov/123212

Still, not a centre. We'd be like an inverted Pittsburgh team if we moved Spezza without getting a centre in return (that is, set on the wings, totally screwed down the middle).

TheAvatar wrote:WPrager,

That's a great analysis. I'm astonished to see how Picard has progressed. When he started out, we didn't know if he was going to make the team. He's gone from that to being quite impactful on this team.

I also strongly agree with your point that "Any trade we do now we'll get fleeced.". My only objection being that the commentators yesterday (they were clownish in every other aspect) were talking very highly of Vermette, calling him I think it was a premier 2-way forward in this league. I wonder if this sentiment is shared by many in the league.

As far as Spezza goes, dealing him would get us to the same point Boston sat after they traded Jumbo Joe. I am as annoyed as anyone with Spezza's new trend of taking lazy penalties but I strongly believe that his defensive game has improved; I'm just starting to wonder if the cost of this improvement was some of his offensive ooomph.

Tukker wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

Tukker wrote:What about Columbus with Leclair and either Voracek or Filatov?

Neither guy is a centre, tho'.... and Filatov is nowhere near NHL ready. He's not even in the AHL yet.

isnt Heatley good at faceoffs? couldnt we try him at center?

wprager wrote:

Tukker wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

Tukker wrote:What about Columbus with Leclair and either Voracek or Filatov?

Neither guy is a centre, tho'.... and Filatov is nowhere near NHL ready. He's not even in the AHL yet.

isnt Heatley good at faceoffs? couldnt we try him at center?

I suggested that a little while back. After seeing his faceoff stats I was, at first, taken aback, then it sounded logical -- part of his skillset is excellent hand-eye coordination and a league-best hand/arm speed. With practice he could be very good on the draw.

Neely4Life wrote:

wprager wrote:

Tukker wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

Tukker wrote:What about Columbus with Leclair and either Voracek or Filatov?

Neither guy is a centre, tho'.... and Filatov is nowhere near NHL ready. He's not even in the AHL yet.

isnt Heatley good at faceoffs? couldnt we try him at center?

I suggested that a little while back. After seeing his faceoff stats I was, at first, taken aback, then it sounded logical -- part of his skillset is excellent hand-eye coordination and a league-best hand/arm speed. With practice he could be very good on the draw.

Heatley was a center before he came to Ottawa. Again, Heatley's game has been reduced to waiting for the puck on the wing. Having Alfi and Spezza on your line, honestly how much time are you going to get with the puck.

I have no issues trying Heatley at center, he actually does have play making abilities despite what some people think. He has been pigeon-holed here in Ottawa.

Tukker wrote:

Neely4Life wrote:

wprager wrote:

Tukker wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:

Tukker wrote:What about Columbus with Leclair and either Voracek or Filatov?

Neither guy is a centre, tho'.... and Filatov is nowhere near NHL ready. He's not even in the AHL yet.

isnt Heatley good at faceoffs? couldnt we try him at center?

I suggested that a little while back. After seeing his faceoff stats I was, at first, taken aback, then it sounded logical -- part of his skillset is excellent hand-eye coordination and a league-best hand/arm speed. With practice he could be very good on the draw.

Heatley was a center before he came to Ottawa. Again, Heatley's game has been reduced to waiting for the puck on the wing. Having Alfi and Spezza on your line, honestly how much time are you going to get with the puck.

I have no issues trying Heatley at center, he actually does have play making abilities despite what some people think. He has been pigeon-holed here in Ottawa.

wasnt he a RW in Atlanta??

• Penner (downgrade, so more would have to come back),
  
• Nash (I keep seeing and hearing rumblings about things being not-so-happy on Columbus; we'd have to add to our end, though - Spezza and Kelly were effective together last year...)
  
• Gaborik - trade an underachieving superstar for one made of glass (ugh) - would this be a true indication of rebuilding, since Gaborik would likely walk?
  and of course
  
• J-Bo. I have to keep bringing him up because we need him so badly.
  

Acrobat wrote:I forgot to add Havlat to the list. Maybe we'd get a defenseman tossed in, but otherwise, another loss.

I agree that there's a big market, but we are in a situation were we need to get an elite forward back (or PMD), thus we are almost forced into a star-swap. None work for us right now.

At least we know CASH (or Pizza or whatever) usually (often? sometimes?) works.