GAME DAY: Ottawa Senators @ New Jersey Devils :: 7:30pm ET :: Wed. Dec. 18th, 2013

tim1_2 wrote:Mac has done some weird things, for sure, but we also aren't privy to the entire story.  There are always things going on behind closed doors that we don't know about.  

I'm not going to throw Mac under the bus yet, as some guys are doing great under him.  

He did some Dung-for-brains moves last year but they mostly worked out. No-one has been able to explain JOB who, at one point, led the forwards on this team in scoring.

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:MacLean's made some deranged decisions this year.  I maintain that he went Dung for brains at one point.

I think it's pretty clear that he's sending a message up to his leadership group very gradually.  First it was the obvious guys you could scratch... then it was a guy like Cowen and Conacher... all the sudden Methot was scratched, now he's essentially calling Spezza out by name in the media.  MacLean has tried EVERYTHING to get Spezza going even at the cost of the guys who are playing well like MacArther (who is struggling now).  I don't want to say he's given up but what other options are there?  People are so quick to jump on the coach like they know better... seriously at this point what options does Paul MacLean have?  

MacArthur is struggling now? He's had three pointless streaks (longer than 1 game) this season. The current one he's on (5 games) is the longest, true, but he's been playing with Spezza longer than that. Also, his first such streak was 4 games, happened at the 3rd game of the season.

I believe MacArthur was put on Spezza's line on Dec. 3 -- the game against Florida. He scored 5 points in the next 4 games, and since then has gone pointless in 5.

You think maybe he's just a bit of a streaky player?

SpezDispenser wrote:Meh, he's competitive, but he'll play tonight, so he can take out his unhappiness on the Florida Panthers.

Ryan also didn't sound happy about having the 8th highest ice time over a couple games, recently. He kind of went back and re-stated what he said to make it sound more palatable, but the first quotes I read weren't very positive.

wprager wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Mac has done some weird things, for sure, but we also aren't privy to the entire story.  There are always things going on behind closed doors that we don't know about.  

I'm not going to throw Mac under the bus yet, as some guys are doing great under him.  

He did some Dung-for-brains moves last year but they mostly worked out.  No-one has been able to explain JOB who, at one point, led the forwards on this team in scoring.

Sideburns.

shabbs wrote:

wprager wrote:

shabbs wrote:I'm not sure why PMac said all that to the press. I can get that he's just as frustrated as we are. Maybe he's been saying that to the room and just got fed up that it was not clicking. Not sure. Has he lost the room?

Any coincidence that PMac and the leadership core (plus Karlsson) are not at practice?  

Suggesting that something is up? Changing of the guard?

  

Nah, but likely holed up in a room, somewhere.

to be a fly on that wall where they all are...

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Meh, he's competitive, but he'll play tonight, so he can take out his unhappiness on the Florida Panthers.

Ryan also didn't sound happy about having the 8th highest ice time over a couple games, recently.  He kind of went back and re-stated what he said to make it sound more palatable, but the first quotes I read weren't very positive.

Yeah, because he should be playing the most icetime of any player - with the exception of Karlsson. I don't blame him. Not on PP1, not getting enough ES time. He should be upset.

wprager wrote:

NEELY wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:MacLean's made some deranged decisions this year.  I maintain that he went Dung for brains at one point.

I think it's pretty clear that he's sending a message up to his leadership group very gradually.  First it was the obvious guys you could scratch... then it was a guy like Cowen and Conacher... all the sudden Methot was scratched, now he's essentially calling Spezza out by name in the media.  MacLean has tried EVERYTHING to get Spezza going even at the cost of the guys who are playing well like MacArther (who is struggling now).  I don't want to say he's given up but what other options are there?  People are so quick to jump on the coach like they know better... seriously at this point what options does Paul MacLean have?  

MacArthur is struggling now?  He's had three pointless streaks (longer than 1 game) this season.  The current one he's on (5 games) is the longest, true, but he's been playing with Spezza longer than that.  Also, his first such streak was 4 games, happened at the 3rd game of the season.  

I believe MacArthur was put on Spezza's line on Dec. 3 -- the game against Florida.  He scored 5 points in the next 4 games, and since then has gone pointless in 5.  

You think maybe he's just a bit of a streaky player?

Nope because he was consistently getting chances with Turris, might not have put the puck in the net but he was noticeable to say the least. With Spezza he's fallen off the map. Like are people really trying to just figure out ways to not put any of this on Spezza?

Can't blame Turris... +12 and producing. Can't blame Karlsson... leads NHL D men in scoring. Can't blame Ryan... leads the team in goals and points. I know what's wrong, the bottom 6 right?

People need to give it a rest, the team isn't coachable with Spezza on it and he's always been a player that is next to impossible to coach.

SpezDispenser wrote:It's not a 1 player problem Prags, but tell me truthfully if you think they'll a)re-sign Spezza and b)if you think he's worth the money and commitment we have tied up in him.

If you think there are other areas that need addressing, you go after some of those holes in this trade.  Say...a right handed, veteran D-man, or a young buck to play on Zibanejad's wing, or a high first rounded.

This is the time to fill some of the holes on this team by trading an asset that won't be an asset for that much longer.

Prior to last season Spezza was 4th in the league in scoring. This season he started off still as a PPG player. His skating was horrible, though, not not so much that he was slow, but that he *looked* like he was dogging it. Truth be told, he's been like that his whole life so don't expect the leopard to change his spots. But he does not do the things that have infuriated us in the past (at least no-where near as often). The guy had back surgery and knee surgery for crying out loud. I am not his doctor so I have no idea if he is done or just needs a full off-season to rebuild the strength. Who knows? I don't think anyone in the West would want him -- game's too fast out there -- and trading him in the East could be disastrous if he recovers. Plus they just made him Captain, they are not going to trade him for pieces.

Also in the last few games Spezza *hasn't* played badly at all. Just a shift here and there and, unfortunately, some of those ended up in the net. But he's also hit some posts/crossbars, he's made some very good plays to set others up.

81.3% on faceoffs last night, 90.9% in the second game against Buffalo (a *must win* game and he wins 20 of 22 -- that's not leaderhip?). Sure, he's -11 on the year, but Michalek is -19. Michalek's gotten worse since being take off Spezza's line while Spezza -- for a while, at least -- improved (he was all the way up to a -8 before the last couple of games). Who's to say that it wasn't Michalek that was dragging on Spezza more than the other way around?

Bottom line is Spezza was never fast to begin with, but he could thread the needle on a pass, and Michalek had elite-level speed. The two of them, together, have lost more than a step and continuing to put them together 15 games into the season was not PMac's best decision. Took him 2 days to "realize" that Ryan and Spezza weren't a match, but 15+ to figure out that Spezza and Michalek did not complement each other?

SeawaySensFan wrote:

wprager wrote:

shabbs wrote:I'm not sure why PMac said all that to the press. I can get that he's just as frustrated as we are. Maybe he's been saying that to the room and just got fed up that it was not clicking. Not sure. Has he lost the room?

Any coincidence that PMac and the leadership core (plus Karlsson) are not at practice?  

Pretty disappointing. Bobby Ryan is at practice, though.

Well he's not getting enough ice time during games, so ...

SeawaySensFan wrote:

wprager wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Mac has done some weird things, for sure, but we also aren't privy to the entire story.  There are always things going on behind closed doors that we don't know about.  

I'm not going to throw Mac under the bus yet, as some guys are doing great under him.  

He did some Dung-for-brains moves last year but they mostly worked out.  No-one has been able to explain JOB who, at one point, led the forwards on this team in scoring.

Sideburns.

I thought I told you to shave those sideburns, O'Brien!!!

Flo The Action wrote:to be a fly on that wall where they all are...

Maybe Spezza brought pictures of that girl from the Cabin.

SpezDispenser wrote:

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Meh, he's competitive, but he'll play tonight, so he can take out his unhappiness on the Florida Panthers.

Ryan also didn't sound happy about having the 8th highest ice time over a couple games, recently.  He kind of went back and re-stated what he said to make it sound more palatable, but the first quotes I read weren't very positive.

Yeah, because he should be playing the most icetime of any player -  with the exception of Karlsson.  I don't blame him.  Not on PP1, not getting enough ES time.  He should be upset.

Not in public, though.

Michalek hasn't even looked that bad lately. His skating better, getting more chances on his own... basically since he stopped playing with Spezza lol. His -2049 is nasty though. Last night was a nice little example that Michalek can actually create and contribute on offense.

Spezza hasn't been God awful on the ice, he's been ok but he's the captain of a struggling team that reflects exactly how his game is defined. Sometimes the best player (team) on the ice, inconsistent, lazy, doesn't battle, and refuses to adjust to what the coaches wants. The Ottawa Senators right now are Jason Spezza, best way to put it.

You can quote me all the stats you want but the only one that matters are wins and loses. You need to score more goals than the other team to win the game... Spezza is the cause of a lot more negativity on the ice than positives.

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Meh, he's competitive, but he'll play tonight, so he can take out his unhappiness on the Florida Panthers.

Ryan also didn't sound happy about having the 8th highest ice time over a couple games, recently.  He kind of went back and re-stated what he said to make it sound more palatable, but the first quotes I read weren't very positive.

Yeah, because he should be playing the most icetime of any player -  with the exception of Karlsson.  I don't blame him.  Not on PP1, not getting enough ES time.  He should be upset.

Not in public, though.

Maybe not, but Diddle it, he's being misused and like everyone else is frustrated.

Two years ago, when Spezza was 4th in the league in scoring, he had 84 points in 80 games, playing an average of 19:55 per game. That's 3.16 points per 60 minutes. This year he's averaging 18:53 and has 28 after 35 games, which works out to 2.54 points per 60 minutes, or 20% off his pace two years ago. That's not a Cheechoo-esque drop off and, besides, at least some of that has to be attributed to Michalek's demise.

By the way, someone mentioned that Karlsson gives way more than he takes. Did you know that Karlsson, who leads the team in scoring, by the way, is -8 on the year? He is also getting almost half his points on the PP (kinda goes hand in hand with the +/- being on the negative despite leading the team). Last full season he was only getting 1/3 of his point on the PP. That's not a small change.

SpezDispenser wrote:

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:

wprager wrote:

SpezDispenser wrote:Meh, he's competitive, but he'll play tonight, so he can take out his unhappiness on the Florida Panthers.

Ryan also didn't sound happy about having the 8th highest ice time over a couple games, recently.  He kind of went back and re-stated what he said to make it sound more palatable, but the first quotes I read weren't very positive.

Yeah, because he should be playing the most icetime of any player -  with the exception of Karlsson.  I don't blame him.  Not on PP1, not getting enough ES time.  He should be upset.

Not in public, though.

Maybe not, but Diddle it, he's being misused and like everyone else is frustrated.

I don't blame him, I blame PMac.  There's lots of blame to go all around.

Sophomore coach jinx?

wprager wrote:Two years ago, when Spezza was 4th in the league in scoring, he had 84 points in 80 games, playing an average of 19:55 per game.  That's 3.16 points per 60 minutes.  This year he's averaging 18:53 and has 28 after 35 games, which works out to 2.54 points per 60 minutes, or 20% off his pace two years ago.  That's not a Cheechoo-esque drop off and, besides, at least some of that has to be attributed to Michalek's demise.

By the way, someone mentioned that Karlsson gives way more than he takes.  Did you know that Karlsson, who leads the team in scoring, by the way, is -8 on the year?  He is also getting almost half his points on the PP (kinda goes hand in hand with the +/- being on the negative despite leading the team).  Last full season he was only getting 1/3 of his point on the PP.  That's not a small change.

Main point in all of that.