Melnyk's Financial Woes: Melnyk's Budget Edition

LeKing wrote:I'm with Ev, Melnyk can do whatever the Diddle he wants with the team and I will support him as long as all the decisions make sense. Ryan and Spezza will be re-signed.

The fact is you people are frustrated because you ask yourselves the wrong questions.
Here's what you should do: make a list of all the big $$$ spenders in the NHL and separate those who are successful from those who aren't.
I'll sum it up for you: those who are successful will not have a single overpaid player and the rest will have 2 or 3 or more.

Yup, I agree with both you and Ev as well. I have no issues with what Melnyk or the Sens have done this far and people here seem to just want to be able to swing their di*ks and say "yah, my team spends stupid amounts of cash too". As far as I know and what I believe the Sens are a better team going into next year then they were last year, they got a lot younger with Alfie and Gonchar moving on, and the money that was actually spent was spent smartly.

Melnyk's personal finances are not my business nor are they anyone elses. I think the guy is a total a**hole but the Sens won't be packing up and moving cities, the Sens are still a top team in the East, the Sens still have maybe the most exciting young team in the NHL, and the Sens have the players signed and in the lineup that I would want going forward for the next 5 years.

Guess people just need someone or something to complain about, maybe people need to get a life or watch some garbage reality TV for some drama. None in Ottawa, people just create it on their own accounts.

I keep going back to his comment that I they're close and need another piece to finish the job, he'll add to the budget. I choose to believe that he's telling the truth.

If we lose Ryan it certainly won't be to free agency

Hoags wrote:

Ev wrote:I am so sick of this topic and it's brining out the true colours of fans. If fans don't like it, go back to cheering for the Leafs and Habs and leave the team to the true fans like myself. We're better off without you.

LOL get off your high horse and go Diddle yourself with your "true fan" BS.  If you don't like this discussion don't go into the thread.

I was a fan of this team from the moment the NHL awarded the franchise and I was going to games at the Civic Centre when they were the worst team in the league and I will still go to games when I get a chance.

Just because I think the team owner is full of Dung doesn't make me any less of a fan.

I admit I'm on a high horse. Let's just have a little more respect for the guy who saved this franchise, OK?

spader wrote:I keep going back to his comment that I they're close and need another piece to finish the job, he'll add to the budget. I choose to believe that he's telling the truth.

So the Sens have the best goaltender in the NHL right now, the best D man, the best coach, landed a franchise winger in Ryan, have the #1 center signed for 2 more years and are about to make him captain, signed a depth guy in MacArthur who will score 20, and have a prospect pool that teams dream about. People have a problem with how this team is being run?

Like you said, they will spend when they need to spend and until they don't I'll form my opinion based on what I have seen and am seeing.

Ev wrote:I am so sick of this topic and it's brining out the true colours of fans. If fans don't like it, go back to cheering for the Leafs and Habs and leave the team to the true fans like myself. We're better off without you.

And this is why I put it here, on its own. Not sprinkled int throughout the tid-bits and prospects threads. I think that deserves a plus. And I know it'll get a minus.

Let me just put it this way:

I have no problem with how the team is currently run.  I don't want them to spend to the cap.  This has nothing to do with Yost either, this is about the article from Gordon.

In Melnyk's own words, this team CANNOT afford to spend to more.  Whether it's due to the team's finances or Melnyk's, I don't know(and it doesn't really matter).

That level of spending will be the floor as early as next year.  Will we be able to build a winner under such constraints? Historically, cap floor teams do not win cups(not even close) and they don't retain their best players on free agency day either.

That is my concern as a long time fan, that's it that's all. I'm not going to speculate much about the team or the owner's finances because I don't know.  However questioning Melnyk is certainly not much of a stretch given his history with the OSC etc.

I apologize if this isn't a popular topic but some of us have every right to concerned what we are hearing.

LeKing wrote:I'm with Ev, Melnyk can do whatever the Diddle he wants with the team and I will support him as long as all the decisions make sense. Ryan and Spezza will be re-signed.

The fact is you people are frustrated because you ask yourselves the wrong questions.
Here's what you should do: make a list of all the big $$$ spenders in the NHL and separate those who are successful from those who aren't.
I'll sum it up for you: those who are successful will not have a single overpaid player and the rest will have 2 or 3 or more.

OK, here are the top 10 cap hit teams:

1. Boston Bruins $70,223,810
2. Philadelphia Flyers $69,153,522
3. Edmonton Oilers $67,774,167
4. Detroit Red Wings $66,997,879
5. Columbus Blue Jackets $66,808,809
6. Pittsburgh Penguins $65,398,333
7. Minnesota Wild $65,265,534
8. San Jose Sharks $65,131,667
9. Los Angeles Kings $64,386,894
10. Tampa Bay Lightning $63,990,477

Unfortunately those are next season numbers and in some cases the teams have just loaded up and we don't know how successful they will be; and in some cases they may have had recent success but have lost some players. Actually that would most likely be Chicago, who are not even on the list (they sit 14th) after winning their second Cup in three years. It's hard to predict where they'll end up this year, but I think it's still fair to say they will be successful.

Of the 10 teams above, I'd say 4 are successful (Boston, Detroit, Pittsburgh, LA), and a couple are borderline (San Jose, Minnesota -- too early to tell about Minny). Looks like spending to the cap is still a 50/50 crapshoot when it comes to success.

As for overpaid players:
Boston: Iginla $6M (maybe), Rask $7M (also maybe -- I just don't like him)
Edmonton: wow, pretty much everyone is pverpaid as none of them have accomplished anything, but Dubnyk $3.75M, Schultz (a rookie) $3.775M
Philly: Timonen $6M, Streit $5.25M (x 4!); Pronger's $4.9M hurts but they have many marginal D-men making pretty good coin
Detroit: Alfie $5.5M, could argue Howard at $5.3M
Columbus: Gaborik $7.5M, Horton $5.3M x 7, Foligno at over $3M
Pittsburgh: Martin (the D-man, not the asst. coach) at $5M, Fleury $5M
Minnesota: Heatbag $7.5M, Parise $7.5M -- better than Heatbag but that's still a ridiculous cap hit for a good but not elite player, Koivu $6.75M
San Jose: Boyle $6.7M, Havlat $5M

I'm tired. There are overpaid players on all teams, it seems. Some more than others.

Flo The Action wrote:

LeKing wrote:I'm with Ev, Melnyk can do whatever the Diddle he wants with the team and I will support him as long as all the decisions make sense. Ryan and Spezza will be re-signed.

The fact is you people are frustrated because you ask yourselves the wrong questions.
Here's what you should do: make a list of all the big $$$ spenders in the NHL and separate those who are successful from those who aren't.
I'll sum it up for you: those who are successful will not have a single overpaid player and the rest will have 2 or 3 or more.

so you can all get with the notion as stated in his interview that if we would have resigned alfredsson we wouldn't have gotten Bobby ryan? I don't think that's well handled at all. I don't think anyone is talking about spending to the cap for the sake of spending to the cap but if the players think the owners aren't doing what they can do be competitive when it's the time. melnyk stated that they wouldn't spend to the cap anymore as he believed in internal development but might do the trade deadline deal once in a while. that might be fine once in a while but will he pass on some good trades because they will cost him too much? I think if you've set yourself restrictions that other teams don't have you are working at a disadvantage. simple as that. and for that I think Melnyk needs to get his house in order in the next year. and if we do lose Bobby Ryan I hope we don't hear you two cry about it then after this.

I think what's much more likely as the explanation is that Alfredsson at $6M x 2 was an overpayment and they said so. That was the end of negotiations. If they could get Alfie in for $4.5M that's only $1M more than Clarke and I think they would have done that (Alfie *and* Ryan). What Melnyk is doing now is trying to appease the fans who are pissed that Alfie won't be delivering their season tickets. Sorry we lost the former face of the franchise, it's heart-and-soul guy and longest-serving Captain, but "truth" is we could not keep him *and* sign that sexy 30+ goal winger at the same time. Of course they could, if Alfie was reasonable, but now they've got to smooth the ruffled feathers and get the season tickets going.

Hoags wrote:Let me just put it this way:

I have no problem with how the team is currently run.  I don't want them to spend to the cap.  This has nothing to do with Yost either, this is about the article from Gordon.

In Melnyk's own words, this team CANNOT afford to spend to more.  Whether it's due to the team's finances or Melnyk's, I don't know(and it doesn't really matter).

That level of spending will be the floor as early as next year.  Will we be able to build a winner under such constraints? Historically, cap floor teams do not win cups(not even close) and they don't retain their best players on free agency day either.

That is my concern as a long time fan, that's it that's all. I'm not going to speculate much about the team or the owner's finances because I don't know.  However questioning Melnyk is certainly not much of a stretch given his history with the OSC etc.

I apologize if this isn't a popular topic but some of us have every right to concerned what we are hearing.

Perfectly reasonable.

You could say, too, that the handwriting is already on the wall if Melnyk couldn't or didn't want to give Alfie a little extra "thank you" money AND get some extra help AND still be one of the lower cap teams in the league.

Oh, and if you want to compare aging former heart-and-soul, long-serving Captain deals, Ryan Smyth is making $2.5M in Edmonton. He is 4 years younger than Alfie, missed only 1 game the last 3 seasons. Sure, Alfie's production is better (0.65 ppg versus 0.5 over those three seasons) but you have to look at ice time, line mates and, of course, games missed.

Giving 12 mil to a 40 year old player is stupid, I don't care if it's Alfie or not and I don't care if he's taken enough home town discounts as well. IMO Alfie being a hard core union supporter he wanted to stick it to Melnyk and he ended up sticking it to himself. I think Alfie knew for a long time that this was a possibility. Anyways, w/e, team is better today than it was yesterday, team is younger, and the team is healed up. Can't wait to start a new chapter.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Hoags wrote:Let me just put it this way:

I have no problem with how the team is currently run.  I don't want them to spend to the cap.  This has nothing to do with Yost either, this is about the article from Gordon.

In Melnyk's own words, this team CANNOT afford to spend to more.  Whether it's due to the team's finances or Melnyk's, I don't know(and it doesn't really matter).

That level of spending will be the floor as early as next year.  Will we be able to build a winner under such constraints? Historically, cap floor teams do not win cups(not even close) and they don't retain their best players on free agency day either.

That is my concern as a long time fan, that's it that's all. I'm not going to speculate much about the team or the owner's finances because I don't know.  However questioning Melnyk is certainly not much of a stretch given his history with the OSC etc.

I apologize if this isn't a popular topic but some of us have every right to concerned what we are hearing.

Perfectly reasonable.

You could say, too, that the handwriting is already on the wall if Melnyk couldn't or didn't want to give Alfie a little extra "thank you" money AND get some extra help AND still be one of the lower cap teams in the league.

As yes, the big leap in conclusion provided by SSF. Everyone knows so little yet pretend to know so much, always fun!

NEELY wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Hoags wrote:Let me just put it this way:

I have no problem with how the team is currently run.  I don't want them to spend to the cap.  This has nothing to do with Yost either, this is about the article from Gordon.

In Melnyk's own words, this team CANNOT afford to spend to more.  Whether it's due to the team's finances or Melnyk's, I don't know(and it doesn't really matter).

That level of spending will be the floor as early as next year.  Will we be able to build a winner under such constraints? Historically, cap floor teams do not win cups(not even close) and they don't retain their best players on free agency day either.

That is my concern as a long time fan, that's it that's all. I'm not going to speculate much about the team or the owner's finances because I don't know.  However questioning Melnyk is certainly not much of a stretch given his history with the OSC etc.

I apologize if this isn't a popular topic but some of us have every right to concerned what we are hearing.

Perfectly reasonable.

You could say, too, that the handwriting is already on the wall if Melnyk couldn't or didn't want to give Alfie a little extra "thank you" money AND get some extra help AND still be one of the lower cap teams in the league.

As yes, the big leap in conclusion provided by SSF.  Everyone knows so little yet pretend to know so much, always fun!

Speak for yourself.

Melnyk says he eventually told general manager Bryan Murray: “We won’t be able to spend that kind of money, so don’t promise that we’re going to bring anybody else in other than filling a hole that was there.”

This year? Next year? 5 years? Pretty broad comment. Absolutely no one knows what will happen 2 years down the line with the Sens or Melnyk's finances, no fans, Melnyk, or Murray. So people spouting off at the mouth about things they really know nothing about is just being ignorant but hey, that's what people do. I choose to form a hockey opinion based on the game actually being played and until something happens that I actually see as a warning shot or something that's concerning I'll keep doing that.

I'll allow Mr Yost, yourself, and others to continue to believe they are C.A's and have access to Melnyk's books and finaces as well as his divorce hearings and happenings because hey, they know more than he does at this point. Could you just help me out and let me know which way the world economy is going to turn as well because I would like a little extra myself.

SeawaySensFan wrote:
Perfectly reasonable.

You could say, too, that the handwriting is already on the wall if Melnyk couldn't or didn't want to give Alfie a little extra "thank you" money AND get some extra help AND still be one of the lower cap teams in the league.

I think it's debatable whether the Sens are a better team with MacArthur on the second line instead of Alfie. He'll never be the player that Alfie was but, hey, neither will Alfie. It would have been fantastic for him to retire as a Senator, settle down and continue to raise his family in Ottawa, becoming some kind of advisor or moving to Director of Player Personnel or whatever position, maybe eventually trying out his chops as a GM, some time down the road. But, hey, and extra $1-2M is what it takes to uproot your family and move to one of the worst cities in NA. Maybe he had a beef with Melnyk, who knows. I know that I have a kid with a framed Alfie 1000 game limited edition print, signed by the man himself, and I know that it's worth less (to my kid) now than if did a month ago.

Anyhow, let me get off my horse for a second. I don't think it's debatable that this is a better team with Ryan (instead of, say, Zibanejad) on the top line than Alfredsson on the second line. And that's what Melnyk is spinning.

Alfie and a lot of other players had a beef with every owner in the NHL, coming off a lockout it's a great way to stick it to the owner and make him look bad but fact is Alfie looks a lot worse than anyone based on the decision he made. He owed the city nothing and the organization nothing but it goes both ways, the fans and organization didn't owe him anything either.

People blame Menlyk for a person choice Alfie decided to make? Sounds like people just refuse to lay any blame on the great #11.

NEELY wrote:This year?  Next year?  5 years?  Pretty broad comment.  Absolutely no one knows what will happen 2 years down the line with the Sens or Melnyk's finances, no fans, Melnyk, or Murray.  So people spouting off at the mouth about things they really know nothing about is just being ignorant but hey, that's what people do.  I choose to form a hockey opinion based on the game actually being played and until something happens that I actually see as a warning shot or something that's concerning I'll keep doing that.

I'll allow Mr Yost, yourself, and others to continue to believe they are C.A's and have access to Melnyk's books and finaces as well as his divorce hearings and happenings because hey, they know more than he does at this point.  Could you just help me out and let me know which way the world economy is going to turn as well because I would like a little extra myself.

I have to give Yost kudos for the digging he did. He's certainly tenacious. He, also, just as certainly, is not a forensic accountant or even a businessman of any stature. There are things happening above our pay grade that we will never understand. Melnyk didn't become a billionaire because he was good at chemistry -- he was good at business. And one thing that businessmen do better than anyone is play with other people's money. But when it comes to the Sens, he was a fan first and businessman second. He's looking for partners now to share the cost (and reap the rewards). I'm surprised it's taking this long to find partners, but I suspect it's because Melnyk-the-fan wants to hold on to more than his partners-to-be are willing to sign up to. If push comes to shove, Melnyk the businessman will bring in the necessary partners even if it means giving up more control of the team than he wants. Or maybe he'll sell the team outright and set up shop with Balsillie in the GTA. Anything could happen.