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PTFlea wrote:How does dorion still have a job?

It's all Melnyk's fault. No other GM has to work with these constraints. Also, the plan was obviously to tank this year.

tim1_2 wrote:

PTFlea wrote:How does dorion still have a job?

It's all Melnyk's fault. No other GM has to work with these constraints.  Also, the plan was obviously to tank this year.  

Disagree. Melnyk made money available to pay a goalie, a top-six winger, Chabot, White and spent money to buy out Ryan (it's less but still a dead cap hit). It wasn't Melnyk who traded assets to bring in a dreadful blueline, a goalie with declining numbers, etc. Dorion should be canned 100% but you can't blame this one on Melnyk.

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:

PTFlea wrote:How does dorion still have a job?

It's all Melnyk's fault. No other GM has to work with these constraints.  Also, the plan was obviously to tank this year.  

Disagree. Melnyk made money available to pay a goalie, a top-six winger, Chabot, White and spent money to buy out Ryan (it's less but still a dead cap hit). It wasn't Melnyk who traded assets to bring in a dreadful blueline, a goalie with declining numbers, etc. Dorion should be canned 100% but you can't blame this one on Melnyk.  

Yes, I can and will blame it all on Melnyk. We are spending the least in the league on players. We likely have among the cheapest, if not THE cheapest, coaching staff and front office. We spend about $0 on analytics.

The money he "made available" was necessary to get to the cap floor. Also, I don't think we can close the door on Matt Murray after a handful of games. Anderson, Nilsson, Hogberg, and any other goalie have looked "bad" behind our d-corps that is the worst in the league.

We have good young players, and are in a position to turn things around as soon as next season IF we can amp up the spending a bit and bring in legit talent via free agency and trades, and not just cheap plugs.

tim1_2 wrote:

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:

PTFlea wrote:How does dorion still have a job?

It's all Melnyk's fault. No other GM has to work with these constraints.  Also, the plan was obviously to tank this year.  

Disagree. Melnyk made money available to pay a goalie, a top-six winger, Chabot, White and spent money to buy out Ryan (it's less but still a dead cap hit). It wasn't Melnyk who traded assets to bring in a dreadful blueline, a goalie with declining numbers, etc. Dorion should be canned 100% but you can't blame this one on Melnyk.  

Yes, I can and will blame it all on Melnyk.  We are spending the least in the league on players.  We likely have among the cheapest, if not THE cheapest, coaching staff and front office.  We spend about $0 on analytics.  

The money he "made available" was necessary to get to the cap floor.  Also, I don't think we can close the door on Matt Murray after a handful of games.  Anderson, Nilsson, Hogberg, and any other goalie have looked "bad" behind our d-corps that is the worst in the league.  

We have good young players, and are in a position to turn things around as soon as next season IF we can amp up the spending a bit and bring in legit talent via free agency and trades, and not just cheap plugs.

Your second point isn't correct - they had no problems reaching the floor with very little external help. For example, Stepan being traded for was not about reaching the floor.

and I agree about Murray, keep playing him the entire year. They didn't trade for him to sit him. Sens fans are the most impatient, kneejerk fans I've seen in any sport.

Next year will be our big year to get out of the rebuild - new GM, hopefully some good signings, and a bunch of young talent.

We'll need a new Gm and a new coaching staff.  Diddle me...

We could shoot all the veterans to the moon right now.

Stützle is practicing taking draws.

wprager wrote:Stützle is practicing taking draws.

Interesting. Probably because Norris has been awful and it's hurting our powerplay. Would prefer he stay a winger TBH. Next year's top-six could look like:

Stutzle-Norris-Batherson
Tkachuk-Pinto-Dadonov

I think Norris will figure out faceoffs. Turris was a good faceoff person and was small. It's all about technique.

PTFlea wrote:We'll need a new Gm and a new coaching staff.  Diddle me...

We could shoot all the veterans to the moon right now.

Honestly, it's impossible to evaluate the GM / coaching staff yet. We'll never know for sure what Dorion's capabilities are for the most part, as he is hamstrung by Melnyk. The coaching staff has one of the worst rosters in the league to work with, so it's tough to blame them.

I don't see anyone getting canned after this season. If we don't see significant improvement in the standings NEXT season, then people gotta be fired.

tim1_2 wrote:

PTFlea wrote:We'll need a new Gm and a new coaching staff.  Diddle me...

We could shoot all the veterans to the moon right now.

Honestly, it's impossible to evaluate the GM / coaching staff yet.  We'll never know for sure what Dorion's capabilities are for the most part, as he is hamstrung by Melnyk.  The coaching staff has one of the worst rosters in the league to work with, so it's tough to blame them.

I don't see anyone getting canned after this season.  If we don't see significant improvement in the standings NEXT season, then people gotta be fired.

We had a ton of draft capital and prospects to work with. Easily could have used some of it to acquire a top forward or a top d-man, and worked something out to get a goalie. Instead we have the worst defense in the league and it cost us to get it. Here's what Dorion has done since the trade deadline:

a) Trade Jaros (RHD) for Kopacka and a 7th
b) Trade Lajoie for (LHD) Clark Bishop (who?)
c) Traded for Coburn, Paquette (-6) and a 2nd rd pick for two IR non-roster players who were not taking up spots
d) Traded a 2nd rd pick for Stepan (-6) and 2 points in 8 games
e) Traded a 4th rd pick for Austin Watson (don't hate this trade)
f) Traded a 5th rd pick for Gudbranson (-7)
g) Traded #59 and #64 for pick #44 (Kleven)
h) Traded 4th rd pick for Josh Brown (-5)
i) Traded 2nd rd pick and Jonathan Gruden (66 pts in 59 games in his draft + 1 year) for Matt Murray (849 save %, 4.82 GAA)
j) Did not waive Mike Reilly (team worst -10). Brannstrom not playing at all right now
k)Signed Galchenyuk (-4 in 3 gp)
l) Lost Balcers for nothing

Not a good look for Dorion here

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:

PTFlea wrote:We'll need a new Gm and a new coaching staff.  Diddle me...

We could shoot all the veterans to the moon right now.

Honestly, it's impossible to evaluate the GM / coaching staff yet.  We'll never know for sure what Dorion's capabilities are for the most part, as he is hamstrung by Melnyk.  The coaching staff has one of the worst rosters in the league to work with, so it's tough to blame them.

I don't see anyone getting canned after this season.  If we don't see significant improvement in the standings NEXT season, then people gotta be fired.

We had a ton of draft capital and prospects to work with. Easily could have used some of it to acquire a top forward or a top d-man, and worked something out to get a goalie. Instead we have the worst defense in the league and it cost us to get it. Here's what Dorion has done since the trade deadline:

a) Trade Jaros (RHD) for Kopacka and a 7th
b) Trade Lajoie for (LHD) Clark Bishop (who?)
c) Traded for Coburn, Paquette (-6) and a 2nd rd pick for two IR non-roster players who were not taking up spots
d) Traded a 2nd rd pick for Stepan (-6) and 2 points in 8 games
e) Traded a 4th rd pick for Austin Watson (don't hate this trade)
f) Traded a 5th rd pick for Gudbranson (-7)
g) Traded #59 and #64 for pick #44 (Kleven)
h) Traded 4th rd pick for Josh Brown (-5)
i) Traded 2nd rd pick and Jonathan Gruden (66 pts in 59 games in his draft + 1 year) for Matt Murray (849 save %, 4.82 GAA)
j) Did not waive Mike Reilly (team worst -10). Brannstrom not playing at all right now
k)Signed Galchenyuk (-4 in 3 gp)
l) Lost Balcers for nothing

Not a good look for Dorion here

There are some good moves and some bad moves, and some irrelevant moves like Jaros and Lajoie (they aren't NHLers) and Galchenyuk (no risk signing), and some moves you didn't list. Most of the veterans they added will be gone this offseason. Also they did get a goalie, and didn't give up much for him at all. The contract is the only risk there, and it's still way too early. Losing a 2nd and a C prospect is nothing to try to solidify your starting position.

Next year this should be something close to the roster that is iced:

Tkachuk-Norris-Batherson
Stutzle-(Signing or Trade)-Dadonov
Formenton-White-Brown
Paul-Tierney-Watson
Pinto

Chabot-Zaitsev
Sanderson-Brannstrom
Wolanin-Brown
(Signing or Trade)
JBD

Murray
Hogberg

I think they will aim for a big addition at C this off-season. Sanderson will also make a big difference if he's signed this summer. I think he will come out. He's too good for NCAA.

We shouldn't be bringing in vets for a year in order to 'insulate the rookies' who have been our best players. We should be using our draft capital to bring in players that can fit with the core of the team and should have weaponized our cap space and we didn't.

I guarantee we could have traded for someone like Barkov if it was for #28, two 2nds, Logan Brown and Balcers/Lajoie. Hell I would have thrown in the picks we used to get Brown and Gudbranson too.

Our D could have been like this and it would be no worse than it is now. We could have also re-signed Boro and had Brann play on the right side.

Chabot-Zaitsev
Brannstrom-Jaros
Wolanin-Zub

DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
I guarantee we could have traded for someone like Barkov if it was for #28, two 2nds, Logan Brown and Balcers/Lajoie. Hell I would have thrown in the picks we used to get Brown and Gudbranson too.
 

Not even close. I don't understand how you can "guarantee" something that is completely farfetched. That offer is not getting you a player of Barkov's calibre with two years left on his deal. It's a lot of quantity with very little quality going the other way, and Florida had no reason to move him in the offseason.

To get Barkov they would have had to (or will have to if pursuing him this off-season) give a blue-chip prospect (not Brown), a top draft pick (highest first round pick), and other quality pieces. His value will be less as he approaches UFA, but you would still need to entice them with more valuable pieces than a decent prospect, low picks, and spare part prospects.

Also who cares about Boro, he's a replacement level D as well who is a #7 this year. If you don't want Gudbranson, Brown etc, there's no reason to want Boro.

Boro wouldn't have cost us an asset to keep

Yeah, that's the point. Boro could have been kept for Gudbranson's cap hit without giving up any picks.

At this point it looks like swing-and-a-miss on Murray but at the time everyone considered it a good trade. Hopefully he'll work it out.

The sheer number of vets brought in was the curious part. Once they got to the cap floor there was no need for more moves unless it read to bring in someone actually good.

wprager wrote:Yeah, that's the point. Boro could have been kept for Gudbranson's cap hit without giving up any picks.

At this point it looks like swing-and-a-miss on Murray but at the time everyone considered it a good trade. Hopefully he'll work it out.

The sheer number of vets brought in was the curious part. Once they got to the cap floor there was no need for more moves unless it read to bring in someone actually good.

I would say most were satisfied with the trade but not the contract. I was optimistic and still am. This season is wacky in many ways.

I don’t mind Gudbranson for the year. I think he’s better than Boro and they play different sides

Another good night for the vets so far tonight

1st overall here we come

Beauty pinch by Reilly on the third goal