GAME DAY #67: Stars @ Senators - 5:00 pm - Sunday, March 6 2016

Saw a stat showing his SH% being something like 12.5% from October to December and dropping to less than half that in January/February.

just don't waste the asset when it's time to trade him. No Conacher and a 4th please.

I say we retain Hoffman. The only way he's shipped is if he won't resign.

Lots of Dung is said about him but fact is his speed in offense will be hard to replace.

wprager wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:

SpezDispensed wrote:

Oglethorpe wrote:Hoffman October - February last 2 years is a +25

March - April is a -9

Telling stat Hoffman has only 3 + games out of 26 in March and April the last 2 years.  

So...when the opponent's are in 'mid-season' form, Hoffman gets destroyed?

Stats can easily lie but the plus minus is pretty damning.  

He's actually still getting shots on goal (and off the posts/crossbar) but his shooting percentage is way down from earlier in the season.  It's not a lack of effort.

I can't believe you just said that.

You measure his effort with your freakin eyes not a stats page. Watch him coast back on the back check or idle around the offensive zone rather than going hard to the boards to retrieve a loose puck. He was cruising around last night waiting for a teammate to do the hard work. I like Hoffman, but if that was his answer to being benched for a period, then screw him, move along.

He was doing the same thing early in the season, too, but he was scoring goals and that got him a pass. All I'm saying is that he is not playing with less effort now. Also I disagree that he dogs it on the back check. Karlsson, well, that's another story, but he's the golden child.

Remember last year, on many occasions I saw Ryan of all people outracing Karlsson on the back check and knocking the puck away or at least trying. Karlsson coasts probably more than any player on the team -- there's a good reason for that, of course, but I wonder if not everyone on the team gets that.

Karlsson gets a pass since he has already played the equivalent of 107 games this year.

Like I said I like Hoffman but he was lazy last night waiting for someone else to do the work and it bothers me that was his response to a challenge from the coach.

wprager wrote:

Ev wrote:
Hoffman is singled out because he doesn't listen and shows zero desire to learn. Add that to the fact he isn't well liked by his teammates. It has nothing to do with coaching. Both maclean and Cameron treated him the same for a reason. He isn't a player I want on this team next year and if he is I will be disappointed. I don't like his game at all.

When you're supposed to a be a top scorer you can't make mistakes like he has. Other goal scorers don't make the mistakes he does

None of those assertions are anything but suppositions from you, with zero inside-the-room knowledge.  You don't know if he is liked or not and, frankly, so long as he doesn't divide the room, who cares how popular he is?  Spezza and McGrattan were quite popular, right?  What does MacLean have to do with anything?  MacLean wasn't even around when hr broke out.  You can't say he doesn't listen because every one listens.  You can's say he has zero desire to learn because you just don't know.  

Maclean was the one who was keeping his ice time low last year. How was he not around right when he broke out?

I know for a fact he isn't the most well liked guy, as I have said before I got this from Mikas good friend

wprager wrote:He was doing the same thing early in the season, too, but he was scoring goals and that got him a pass.  All I'm saying is that he is not playing with less effort now.  Also I disagree that he dogs it on the back check.  Karlsson, well, that's another story, but he's the golden child.  

Remember last year, on many occasions I saw Ryan of all people outracing Karlsson on the back check and knocking the puck away or at least trying.  Karlsson coasts probably more than any player on the team -- there's a good reason for that, of course, but I wonder if not everyone on the team gets that.

Karlsson doesn't even coast, he's just playinghis rover position and conserves energy since he has to play a ton of minutes. we always see him skating fast so normal skating will appear like coasting.

Hoffman is going into the mason Raymond and Michael Grabner territory. So many parralels and red flags

The Mason Raymond and Grabner comparisons are a little over the top.

I would sign Hoffman long term, because he will be easy to move after next season if necessary. I want to see if how he reacts to getting the contract.

Oglethorpe wrote:Karlsson gets a pass since he has already played the equivalent of 107 games this year.  

Like I said I like Hoffman but he was lazy last night waiting for someone else to do the work and it bothers me that was his response to a challenge from the coach.  

Like I said, every one knows why Karlsson gets a pass but it's still true that he coasts more than anyone else on the team. Maybe that's not a good visual from the guy wearing the 'C'. Back when the choice was him or Spezza or Phillips quite a few had reservations about him. Did one year really make that much of a difference? Not that it really should matter who has the stupid letter. These guys are professionals.

Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:

Ev wrote:
Hoffman is singled out because he doesn't listen and shows zero desire to learn. Add that to the fact he isn't well liked by his teammates. It has nothing to do with coaching. Both maclean and Cameron treated him the same for a reason. He isn't a player I want on this team next year and if he is I will be disappointed. I don't like his game at all.

When you're supposed to a be a top scorer you can't make mistakes like he has. Other goal scorers don't make the mistakes he does

None of those assertions are anything but suppositions from you, with zero inside-the-room knowledge.  You don't know if he is liked or not and, frankly, so long as he doesn't divide the room, who cares how popular he is?  Spezza and McGrattan were quite popular, right?  What does MacLean have to do with anything?  MacLean wasn't even around when hr broke out.  You can't say he doesn't listen because every one listens.  You can's say he has zero desire to learn because you just don't know.  

Maclean was the one who was keeping his ice time low last year. How was he not around right when he broke out?

I know for a fact he isn't the most well liked guy, as I have said before I got this from Mikas good friend

MacLean was gone half way through. And in every room there will be some that are very popular and some that will sit by themselves and listen to their music quietly. Doesn't matter. Like I said earlier, we had lots of very popular players before and it got us nowhere. Well other than to the Cup Final, I guess. And I'd be Heatley was not the most popular guy in the room, either.

Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:He was doing the same thing early in the season, too, but he was scoring goals and that got him a pass.  All I'm saying is that he is not playing with less effort now.  Also I disagree that he dogs it on the back check.  Karlsson, well, that's another story, but he's the golden child.  

Remember last year, on many occasions I saw Ryan of all people outracing Karlsson on the back check and knocking the puck away or at least trying.  Karlsson coasts probably more than any player on the team -- there's a good reason for that, of course, but I wonder if not everyone on the team gets that.

Karlsson doesn't even coast, he's just playinghis rover position and conserves energy since he has to play a ton of minutes. we always see him skating fast so normal skating will appear like coasting.

Hoffman is going into the mason Raymond and Michael Grabner territory. So many parralels and red flags

Half the time the forwards beat him back. He conserves energy by coasting. Sometimes it looks pretty awful, though, as if he's not even trying. Sometimes leads to pretty bad goals.

Did Raymond or Grabner lead their respective teams in goals two seasons running?

Listen, Walter, you can't deny that there are plenty of red flags around Hoffman. He was playing quite poorly recently, and certainly deserves the "demotion" he's getting. If he's not burying his chances, he's pretty useless, and lately he hasn't been burying. Comparing his level of effort to Karlsson is laughable and just diminishes your argument.

tim1_2 wrote:Listen, Walter, you can't deny that there are plenty of red flags around Hoffman.  He was playing quite poorly recently, and certainly deserves the "demotion" he's getting.  If he's not burying his chances, he's pretty useless, and lately he hasn't been burying.  Comparing his level of effort to Karlsson is laughable and just diminishes your argument.  

I disagree. He's playing the same as before. He's hit a few more posts and crossbars and has been getting less ice time with worse linemates. He is a small skilled player with excellent speed and shot. He is not going go generate offense by himself like Chiasson or Zibanejad should be able to do. He is not going to be a big hitting machine or a defensive wizard. Nevertheless, he has the kind of skill which -- if used effectively -- will help you win games. But Cameron has a chip on his shoulder and is more preoccupied with playing "the right way" than winning games.

I wasn't comparing his effort level to Karlsson's, I was just saying that perhaps seeing your Captain coasting is not the best optics on a young team. I refuse to believe that the Sens giving up 34+ shots on goal on a nightly basis is somehow on the shoulders of one guy. Hoffman has received his fair share of criticism but also large does of Ryan's, Chiasson's and so on. This team gives up too many easy zone entries, too slow on loose pucks, too easy on guys in front of their own net, and so on. This is a team thing and not one player.

We've been through this before. It was all on Spezza. How can you expect you team to play the way they should when their highest-paid player and the guy wearing the 'C' is not putting in the effort? Well, Spezza and his 25-30 goals are gone and where are we? Exactly the same place. So let's pick the next 25-30 goal scorer who makes mistakes and doesn't play the "right way" and blame him on the team's awful play. How many seconds of PK time has Hoffman played this season? Surely he is not the reason why the PK sucks? And since he is 6th among forwards in PP time per game (i.e. clearly on the 2nd unit) it's hard to blame *ust him* for the team's awful PP. So it must all come down to Hoffman's even-strength play, where only 7 players in the entire league have more goals than he does over the last two seasons.

And I'd be willing to bet not one of those 7 gets 14 shifts on the 4th line.

There hasn't been these much red flags on a player since I can't remember. I disagree with the way Cameron is going about it some of the time, but long and short, he's not the kind of player for us.

wprager wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Listen, Walter, you can't deny that there are plenty of red flags around Hoffman.  He was playing quite poorly recently, and certainly deserves the "demotion" he's getting.  If he's not burying his chances, he's pretty useless, and lately he hasn't been burying.  Comparing his level of effort to Karlsson is laughable and just diminishes your argument.  

I disagree.  He's playing the same as before.  He's hit a few more posts and crossbars and has been getting less ice time with worse linemates.  He is a small skilled player with excellent speed and shot.  He is not going go generate offense by himself like Chiasson or Zibanejad should be able to do.  He is not going to be a big hitting machine or a defensive wizard.  Nevertheless, he has the kind of skill which -- if used effectively -- will help you win games.  But Cameron has a chip on his shoulder and is more preoccupied with playing "the right way" than winning games.

What? Why is Chiasson supposed to generate offense by himself? That makes zero sense.

Hoffman when on generates things by himself. Lately he's been bad and hasn't been creating much of anything. Posts and crossbars are still misses.

But yes he should not be handling the puck so much because he isn't smart enough to make good decisions with it.

Ev wrote:

wprager wrote:

tim1_2 wrote:Listen, Walter, you can't deny that there are plenty of red flags around Hoffman.  He was playing quite poorly recently, and certainly deserves the "demotion" he's getting.  If he's not burying his chances, he's pretty useless, and lately he hasn't been burying.  Comparing his level of effort to Karlsson is laughable and just diminishes your argument.  

I disagree.  He's playing the same as before.  He's hit a few more posts and crossbars and has been getting less ice time with worse linemates.  He is a small skilled player with excellent speed and shot.  He is not going go generate offense by himself like Chiasson or Zibanejad should be able to do.  He is not going to be a big hitting machine or a defensive wizard.  Nevertheless, he has the kind of skill which -- if used effectively -- will help you win games.  But Cameron has a chip on his shoulder and is more preoccupied with playing "the right way" than winning games.

What? Why is Chiasson supposed to generate offense by himself? That makes zero sense.

Hoffman when on generates things by himself. Lately he's been bad and hasn't been creating much of anything. Posts and crossbars are still misses.

But yes he should not be handling the puck so much because he isn't smart enough to make good decisions with it.

Because of his physical attributes. Hoffman can generate things with his speed, but against better-coached teams that may not be enough by itself.